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  1. #196
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    Its been 5 years since I finished my bench, fitted with the Hovarter twin handled face vice, and wagon vice, and I thought I'd post my impressions 5 years on, for anyone contemplating these as an option for their bench projects.
    The maximum travel of the handles is a half turn. Due to the way the mechanism works, they cannot travel more than half a turn.
    You don't HAVE to complete the full travel to secure something in the vice, but if you only used a quarter turn, the item would most likely move under load. A quarter turn would suffice for a fragile item, but I have found that for anything that I am holding in the face vice, I always use the full half turn. I want whatever I have in the vice to be solid, and not move. As Graeme noted with the Record, sometimes you need an extra half-turn etc to get sufficient holding strength. If I have a similar situation, I need to undo the vice (half turn anti-clockwise), push the face of the vice firmly against the object, and tighten again. I've found that you need to make sure every time that you hold the face quite firmly against the item, before tightening, or it'll result in an insecure hold.
    The bigger issue comes from one of the vices best (and worst) features:
    The face slides on 2 rods which are independent of each other. This allows for tightening the face when it isn't parallel to the bench. If you need to hold an item that doesn't have parallel sides, this is a great solution, as it will still apply pressure when not parallel. However, on the flip side, if using with a very short piece, as you press the face of the vice against the item, in preparation for tightening, if you don't ensure you push to get the face parallel to the bench, when you tighten, it can result in the item slipping sideways, or not as firm a hold, requiring you to loosen, re-press the face against the item, and then tighten again.
    I too have a record quick-release vise floating around and at some point I plan to fit it to a bench in the shed as well, as there are times when you can't get quite enough pressure with the Hovarter (those times when you really need to crank down on something).
    A big benefit of the Hovarter face vice is the lack of central mechanism so it's excellent when making drawers/boxes, that you need to put down deep in a vice, and any vice with a central screw would prevent you from dropping the item down low in the vice.
    With the way the vices apply pressure to the rods, you have to be quite careful not to get any form of glue, or lubricant on the rods. They need to stay very clean, in order to work properly (and that includes keeping them free of surface rust). You can't lubricate them, or if you do as part of maintenance, you need to remove the lubricant afterwards. Essentially they use friction to apply holding pressure, and anything that affects that will reduce the ability of the vices to securely hold anything.


    To answer Graemes questions directly:
    What happens if the object is not firmly gripped with that half turn of the handle? See above - undo, press face against item firmly, and re-tighten.
    Can I simply turn the handle a bit more as with conventional vises? No.
    Can I apply light or very high pressure as the task warrants? Light - Yes definitely. Very high pressure - no. See above - I intend to use my record quick-release for these times.
    Hovarter seems to treat the vises very gently, as though they are fragile. - I wouldn't call them fragile. They are quite solid. They are a bit fiddly however. They aren't the 'perfect' vice, but they do have good features.


    Here's a link to the video I did after making mine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GClDs-OHE1Q

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  3. #197
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    Good Morning Timbernut

    Thank you so much for such a well considered and detailed response to my post. You answered all my questions plus some I had not thought of.

    It is exchanges like this that really make this Forum.

    Thanks


    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  4. #198
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    No worries Graeme - glad to help. Choosing a face vice when making a bench is a decision to considered carefully. Once you make the bench around the vice, essentially you are stuck with your choice, and it needs to meet your needs.
    I'm not sorry I bought the Hovarter vices, but there are times when I think a different model would be more suitable (I guess that's true of any item in the shed - no one tool is perfect in every situation).

    If you had other questions we could start up a google hangout/skype call one night and I can demonstrate/answer anything you want clarity on (kind of like being there in person, over the interweb...) unless you are inclined to travel to Sydney, in which case pop in for a cuppa, and take it for a spin yourself.

  5. #199
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    So the question is Ian: given the reasonably high cost, would you buy it again?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
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  6. #200
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    To add complexity and reality to your response to FenceFurniture's post, Timbernut, I have updated the survey on vise prices. These are the best prices that I could find tonight. Bit of a challenge?

    Twin Screw Vise Prices.jpg

    Would you still choose the Hovarter, or one of the others, or neither?



    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  7. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    ..... These are the best prices that I could find tonight. Bit of a challenge?....

    Well, that was my first reaction, but I have to admit that I still have a 1960s mentality when it comes to tool prices, so I'm possibly a little out of date.

    There is undeniable satisfaction in having a tool that you consider the best possible for the job, and if you accept that vises are central to the whole woodworking thing, paying 4 or 5 hundred dollars for it isn't as outlandish as it first seemed. Besides, a decent vise should see you out (plus one or more of your descendants!).

    As I've said before, I'm not a devotee of quick-action vises. There was a time when I desperately wanted one, but with a couple of kids and a mortgage to support on postgraduate scholarships, it was a case of make-do with what I could scrounge or make. By the time I could afford what I wanted, I was too used to what I had to bother changing. So I've probably spent a few extra minutes per week winding vise screws back & forth, over the years. However, on reflection, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing - it sometimes gave me time for my brain to catch up with my hands, and stopped me making the stuff-up I was about to commit. On balance, slow-action vises may have saved me quite a bit of time....

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #202
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    FF and Graeme, to answer your question "Would I buy it again? "
    I've often wondered that myself. And I guess I've had 5 years to mull it over. The biggest limitation is where you need to apply a LARGE amount of holding force (you know, when you need to bend a bit of metal, and want to belt it with a mallet, and don't have a separate steel vice to use - so you turn to your workbench for support.....I know - it's not what these vices are used for, but not everyone has the luxury of a separate workstation for steel work).

    When I made the new bench, at that time, I had the record quick-release on an old rickety bench, and before trashing that pile of .... I removed, and kept the record vice. Every time I see it on the shelf, I tell myself I should fit it to the face of the workbench too.

    When I was investigating the Hovarter, my other front-runner was the Benchcrafted Glide leg vice (BenchCrafted.com - Glide Crisscross).

    If I were making a new bench from scratch, I'd be buying the Benchcrafted. Granted, they aren't cheap, but I'd plan a bench around it at one end and probably the record, or Hovarter face vice at the other end on the front.
    If I regret anything, I think it really is more the tail vice. Not that the Hovarter tail vice is bad, it's just that I rarely use it. I think a better solution, for me personally, would be to remove it from the bench, and put the record quick-release in it's place.

    Having recently built a large shed, I'm still playing around with layouts, and a 2nd bench will probably end up being built somewhere, and I'm kind of waiting to make that decision before deciding on a final home for the record vice.

    Sorry, long-winded answer, I know, but if I had to give a short one it would be "Yes, but I'd skip the tail vice and put the Benchcrafted Glide M Crisscross Solo at the other end (and I would no doubt ultimately discover it's limitations too)."

    I'm not sure if that helps, because I just introduced another option you haven't listed, and it's even more expensive than the Hovarter!

  9. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post

    Well, that was my first reaction, but I have to admit that I still have a 1960s mentality when it comes to tool prices, so I'm possibly a little out of date.

    Yeah, me too. I am in the market for a new record quick action vise at 1960's prices....

    On the other issue, are you not overlooking the prime issue of efficiency. Power tools allow you to make much bigger stuff ups much more quickly.


    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  10. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    FF and Graeme, to answer your question "Would I buy it again?"
    .....
    I'm not sure if that helps, because I just introduced another option you haven't listed, and it's even more expensive than the Hovarter!

    Thank you Timbernut.

    I don't think there is a definitive answer, but you have just made a very well informed contribution to the debate.

    Thanks, again.


    Graeme

  11. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    ......If I regret anything, I think it really is more the tail vice. Not that the Hovarter tail vice is bad, it's just that I rarely use it. I think a better solution, for me personally, would be to remove it from the bench, and put the record quick-release in it's place......
    I think you've just corroborated a point I often try to make, TN. What suits one person's work style may be quite the reverse for another. For me, I would have a tail vise before anything else. Preferably a real one, not a travelling dog system (), but that would be better than none at all. I could get by without a front vise if I had to, though it's very handy to have it, but 90% of my benchwork involves the tail vise.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    ......Having recently built a large shed, I'm still playing around with layouts, and a 2nd bench will probably end up being built somewhere, and I'm kind of waiting to make that decision before deciding on a final home for the record vice.....
    I made the decision to have two benches in my 3.6 x 7M shed, one dedicated to metal-work and the other to woodwork. If I could have the ultimate luxury, I'd have two sheds, the twain just don't live easily together. Despite my care, bits of metal sometimes appear where they oughtn't to be.

    Actually, I've ended up with three benches, which is ridiculous, but awfully convenient, at times...

    Cheers,
    IW

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