Workbench Vises - all the different ones in the same thread - contributions please

[pmcgee]

I'm glad all this choice wasn't around when I built my first bench. I went with Tage Frid's trad euro bench, the holding/ clamping system is very flexible.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/new-bench-149535/

I like the tail-vice! I like the Beech!
I don't like all this efficiency of building.

Paul

[artme]

Would it be possible to build a leg vise that is tightened up using a foot operated action like the Triton Superjaws?

[FenceFurniture]

I guess so Art - just a bunch of levers etc, but I think it would be a PITA, and may protrude out from the bench as a very nice tripper.

[pmcgee]

Would it be possible to build a leg vise that is tightened up using a foot operated action like the Triton Superjaws?

More possible with the Hovarter maybe? it operates a bit like a handbrake in a car.

Paul

[artme]

I guess so Art - just a bunch of levers etc, but I think it would be a PITA, and may protrude out from the bench as a very nice tripper.

'Twas just a thought to try to get around the problem of getting both leverage and holding depth.

[FenceFurniture]

A quick entry to keep the thread alive while I get to composing the summary, and include the Lie Nielsen vises.

[Gunnaduit]

Great thread, I only just read it now, due to wanting to make a decision about ordering vises before the AUD goes completely south against the USD.

The whole workbench thing is an area where it looks like there's a lot of evolution of thought and technology happening in the past few years, a really dynamic area of design right now, as people unpack the basic ideas and follow the implications through in greater, better thought-out detail.

A few thoughts:

- I thought the Lie Neilsen tail vise looked a serious contender against the wagon vises and the Veritas tail vise, but there's pretty much no user reviews about it that I could find on the web. Has anyone used one and could comment?

- The leg vise as an alternative to the trusty Record vice and the like, looks to be a serious contender, and could be much more than just a fad. It has genuine advantages. But I'm not convinced about the simplest version, i.e. the one with the peg adjustment at the bottom, it looks like a lot of bending down and messing around. I'm also not so sure about the chain drive alternative: I can imagine a hell of a lot of crap clogging the chain over time, as well as being a solution that would immediately seem obsolete (due to overcomplication) once someone thinks of a more elegant solution. Maybe the elegant solution is already there with the Benchcraft scissor hinge idea (BenchCrafted.com - Glide Crisscross), but gadzooks, that's a big chunk of money and somehow, getting too gadgetty and bourgeois (in the tradition of upper-class Edwardian amateur gentlemen woodworkers) is dispiriting in its own way.

- Just on tail vises again: in terms of really simple ways of avoiding a tail vise altogether, would it be practical to have the series of dog-holes along the bench as per usual, but instead of the tail vice, just have a peg (or two, for more stability) at that end, which could be used in conjunction with wedges? As in, you want to plane a board flat, so instead of laying the board down and squeezing it up between a bench dog on the left end and the tail-vise dog on the right end, you tap in opposing wedges tight on the right hand end, in between the end of the board and the peg. Has anyone tried that, and did it work?

[FenceFurniture]

Gunna, what about the Hovarter QR Leg Vise? Not cheap, but not outrageous. If I go leg vise, and I probably will, then it'll be one of these for sure.

As for a Tail Vise, the HNT is really compact, not expensive, easy and quick to install, and right now they are "on special". What's more, they work really well. Having used one for about a year I just couldn't justify the cost of a Benchcrafted, and nor would I want the big wheel hanging off the end of the bench.

I think the idea of wedges etc could probably work, but not for efficiency (speed of changing over the boards when you have a few to do).

If you haven't seen the sister thread to this, it's here.

[IanW]

......The whole workbench thing is an area where it looks like there's a lot of evolution of thought and technology happening in the past few years, a really dynamic area of design right now, as people unpack the basic ideas and follow the implications through in greater, better thought-out detail......

I'm going to sound a bit like a cranky old reactionary, but I'm starting to think a bit too much thought & effort is going into benches, & not enough into making things on 'em. I'm as susceptible as the next person to neat ideas, so I'm glad I built my current bench nearly 30 years ago, when about the only fancy model the average gentleman woodworker knew about was the 'European' style advocated by the likes of Frid & Klausz. The choice of vises was pretty limited, and if you wanted a tail vise (& I wasn't sure I wanted one - they looked a bit 'complicated'!) you had to make it (it wasn't half as difficult as I anticipated). That bench has done everything I have required of it, and helped me improve my woodworking skills a lot. Granted, there are times I wish I'd made provision for drilled holes for a bench hook (the place I'd like them is only 45mm thick), but apart from that, there have been very few holding tasks I've needed that it can't do satisfactorily.

My first attempt at a semi-decent bench was made a few years before this one. I made a travelling dog system for it using the screw from a pipe-clamp set, and a bit of crude cobbling to fit the nut part into the bench end cap. The whole bench worked really well, it was the first time I had experienced a really solid bench, and I thought the travelling dog system was the bees' knees. I probably would have gone on using it for a very long time, but the fixed handle on my dog screw was a bit of a nuisance, and in looking for ways to fix it, I first came across the tail-vise. and decided I had to have one, just because it looked so cool. It has definite advantages over a travelling dog system (aka 'wagon vise, etc.), but I didn't realise how much until long after I built it.

I guess I'm trying to say two things - you probably don't need as many holding options as there are available now, and if you are thinking of your first 'real' bench, it's probably better to just make a 'pretty good' bench & use it hard for a few years, than try to get everything 'perfect' first go. After a while, you will know what works for you & what you really need.....

Cheers,

[Gunnaduit]

Ian, in my case its probably knowing a few things I don't like. I think the Record 52 front vise on my old bench isn't great for workholding, its always given me problems for planing edges of wide boards. So I know I want to try out something else there, and although the leg vise smacks of flavour-of-the-month, my engineering brain thinks there's more to it than that. I'm glad someone revived it (though I still may still decide its too much hassle for me to get together). As to a tail vise, I haven't tried one, but maybe it'll hold flat work better for planing and so on than the little Marples bench stop set into the benchtop near the front vise. At this stage I've got the money (not that I want to spend crazy on tool bling), so I can buy what I need, and I really doubt I'll build more than this one bench. Gettin' toward the end of the day. I'd agree that "pretty good" is the goal, trying for "perfect" just makes you a sucker for the bling out there (the amateur gentleman market).

I've had the Tage Frid plans there for almost 10 years now (that's how long I haven't gotten onto my bench build), but these days I'm happy about all the rethinking that's been going on in the meantime, because I don't have a big Scandinavian barn / upstate New York country atelier (like in the American woodwork mags) to put it in. Just a little suburban garage, where the jutting-out shoulder vice will get me in the nuts or hip every time I have to squeeze past to get out the back, and the big L-shaped tail vise will hit the storage shelves standing right there at the bench end. Such is life. The trick is, in my case, to take the new ideas that provide for a more compact use of limited space, but avoid the over-engineered bling.

FF, that Hovarter vise - I suppose if I watch the vid. I'll see how it works. I don't get it by looking at the photo. But all that shiny stuff (Benchcraft stuff too), with all the chrome handwheels and chrome shafts etc., I dunno, it's all just, well, too clean. Sleek, I think the yanks would enthusiastically say. More like shiny polished cars, or part of some sort of hospital equipment than the state of my workspace.

The HNT tailvise - it kind of looks little. Maybe it doesn't need to be all that big, so I stand to be corrected there. But with all the beefy stuff around, it's out there making a stand for the little stuff. Good on 'em, I guess.

Y' know, some of us might have to put off actually making anything from wood even longer, while we figure out how to make appropriate bench hardware with typical home metalworking equipment. Because to be honest, I just don't see anything right out there on the market. Either it's too over-polished and expensive, or it's just not up to requirements. Where's the workman-like stuff?

[FenceFurniture]

The nearest owner of an HNT Tailvise to you (that I know of) is "mat" in Canberra. I've just sent him an email to ask if you can have a look at his - if yes then I'll pass his email addy to you. Other than that you'll be able to see one at Terry's stand if you are going to the Sydney Wood Show (which will be after the Group Buy special prices have finished).

This is a 98 second video on the Hovarter Quick Release Leg Vise.

This is Timbernut's demo of his bench (with Hovarters) 5 minutes or less, and worth watching for other reasons as well. Just ignore his T-shirt.

Personally I would want to replace the bulky handle with a shiny wheel (with NO wheel handle) because it is only used for the the last 1/4 turn to secure the job, and would be less of a nut cracker. Sawdust Maker has also had his delivered sans handle, but it's still in the box (as one would expect, eh Nick).

[Zsteve]

maybe I am a bit cynical but I think a lot of the innovation and evolution in bench technology is driven by people trying to make money - and not out of necessity for for new bench options. don't get me started about the impact of cheap imports on our own industries....

I got by with a a short bench and a planing stop for too long. Have recently now completed the below bench made from old growth Oregon (very fine growth rings). Picture was taken when basically it just needed the legs to be put on, but a good shot of (the underside) what is proving to be a very functional wagon type vice that I built at a cost of about $20. Vice jaw you can see to the right belongs to the old bench underneath.

P2170306.jpg

[FenceFurniture]

What did you have delivered in the Express Post bag Steve?

[Gunnaduit]

ZSteve, I like that wagon vise you've made. Now that's style. Mind you, you're lucky to have retrieved that big old screw from somewhere, it has élan as the French would say. I'd probably have to rip apart the Carbatec tailvise made by Zhuong Huwei Tool Co., or whoever. But the build looks good (yours, not Zhuong's), gets me thinking. More pics?

FF, yeah, righto, I'm on -- out into the Canbera burbs one weekend to have a look at Mat's vise, if he's happy. Also I had a look at the Hovarter vid (90 secs you said -- so even a lazy bggr like me had no excuse). Still none the wiser how it works, I suppose its a simple principle that I should really know. Something related to why the cutlery drawer always jams? The VB guy's bench is pretty cool, I went completely OT and fell in love with those flip-down castor wheel outrigger things he's invented.

[FenceFurniture]

Still none the wiser how it works, I suppose its a simple principle that I should really know.

The short answer is that the two shafts are linked by a chain, so you only have to turn either handle, not both. No idea about the QR mechanism, and ah, don't care - it works, and quickly - that'll do me. I'll figure it out when/if it gets here. That's also what I like about the HNT - it works, and quick.

The VB guy's bench is pretty cool, I went completely OT and fell in love with those flip-down castor wheel outrigger things he's invented.

yep, those wheels are food for thought for the dmall-shed worker. I'm thinking of a screw down wheel (spanner on a hex nut jobbie), but haven't thought it through, or even know if such a beast exists, but I'm sure that something could be jimmied up.