Workbench Vises - all the different ones in the same thread - contributions please

[Bushmiller]

I'm going to sound a bit like a cranky old reactionary, but I'm starting to think a bit too much thought & effort is going into benches, & not enough into making things on 'em.

Ian

This is my fifth attempt at posting a reply. The previous four were from work where I tried to sneak in a quick reply, but we have just gone to Windows 7 and it doesn't seem to like the forums .

It is very difficult to disagree with you on a rational basis. After all a bench is a bench in many regards, but we are all suckers for the new and shiny. I mean to say where would the automotive industry be if we didn't aspire to a brand new, more powerful car?

I have two work benches and still aspire to another: A "pretty" bench. Like you my first bench was made over thirty years ago and at the time I thought it was the bees knees, but it didn't even boast a proper woodworkers vice, just a secondhand malfunctioning engineers vice. In fact it is down in NSW so not very handy at all.

About five years ago I made another bench (documented elsewhere here on the forums) and it is fully functional, very practical, made from scrap materials and cost about $50.

So I have started to build another bench (long term WIP ) complete will flashy hardware, because the existing bench being made of scrap materials is.... well.... scrappy .

I think the concept of making something for the workshop that would hardly look out of place in a lounge room is rather incongruous but exciting all at the same time. Rational? Perhaps not.

Regards
Paul

[IanW]

.....It is very difficult to disagree with you on a rational basis. After all a bench is a bench in many regards, but we are all suckers for the new and shiny. I mean to say where would the automotive industry be if we didn't aspire to a brand new, more powerful car?

Paul (& others) don't get me wrong - as I said, I'm as susceptible to tool bling as the next bloke, but fortunately I was never too flush during most of my woodworking life, so have had to make do more than I might have wished. That hasn't been a bad thing, as I've probably learnt to be more resourceful, and haven't spent lots on tools & gear I might have under-utilised.

I am absolutely for, & encourage all, to make, a decent bench, - it really is the main tool in your shed. What I am trying to say is that when it comes to a workhorse, a tradies' ute is better than a Ferrari, & much less expensive.......

Cheers,

[pmcgee]

yep, those wheels are food for thought for the dmall-shed worker. I'm thinking of a screw down wheel (spanner on a hex nut jobbie), but haven't thought it through, or even know if such a beast exists, but I'm sure that something could be jimmied up.

My other half had a spinal fusion surgery in December 2011. A few weeks afterwards, during a meeting with the pain-management specialist, being a caring partner ... I noticed a neat height-adjustable examination bed ... and took some photos ... in the room ... during the meeting.

I did it for you, FF.

Paul

Pic_1219_249.jpg Pic_1219_248.jpg

When the wheeled section is pushed forward relative to the legs, the bed is raised and simultaneously the legs are pushed down.
I deduce/assume that when the wheeled section retracts the legs become raised from the ground and only the wheels are in contact with the ground.


also:


Workbench Plans Videos

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/el...-bench-140160/

[FenceFurniture]

Paul, please tell me your other half isn't around 250kgs (possibly what my bench may end up as). And if that's only the other "half" then it's starting to look like 500+kgs. A more than an adequate test for any lifting device.

[Bushmiller]

My other half had a spinal fusion surgery in December 2011. A few weeks afterwards, during a meeting with the pain-management specialist, being a caring partner ... I noticed a neat height-adjustable examination bed ... and took some photos ... in the room ... during the meeting.

I did it for you, FF.

Paul

Paul

I know of at least one woodworker who use one these hospital beds as the basis for a mobile workbench. In fact he uses it for his cabinet making business. They are reasonably robust and at times are sold off cheaply.

There is more of an application in using them to move materials around the workshop. Not really an option for FF as he has no room to swing a cat (not that he is that way inclined with his three black moggies).

Regards
Paul

[Zsteve]

bit cramped to take a good pick from the side however this one is not too bad.

as well as the wagon vice I have a c1950s record quick release. The bench is a work in progress as there's always other jobs to do but it will have a sliding deadman and cabinet underneath and in between rows of front and back dog holes so as not to interfere. Its quite heavy - at least 130kg and possibly more than that. Top is about 4.5 inches thick and the hold downs work nicely. Was planned to be simple yet functional for hand tool use. Both the wagon vice screw and the face vice I got at swap meets/markets.

P5240329.jpg

[elver]

.....

The HNT tailvise - it kind of looks little. Maybe it doesn't need to be all that big, so I stand to be corrected there. But with all the beefy stuff around, it's out there making a stand for the little stuff. Good on 'em, I guess.

Y' know, some of us might have to put off actually making anything from wood even longer, while we figure out how to make appropriate bench hardware with typical home metalworking equipment. Because to be honest, I just don't see anything right out there on the market. Either it's too over-polished and expensive, or it's just not up to requirements. Where's the workman-like stuff?

I just picked up my HNT tailvise. I thought from the webshots it was small... Nope its beefy and solid! Its certainly got more heft than needed for clamping, and a beautiful piece of engineering. Its quality stuff and clearly made to hold work well for a very long time.

I think I'm tempted to lop off half the length of the handle, to save my nuts, but no need to install a handwheel. Terrys option of rolling the knurled 'nut' is spot on and no more is needed. For sizing reference the the dog hole is 14mm in diameter. Plenty beefy enough when the dog is brass. The handle is around 25mm diameter, beefier than it looks and just right for rolling on your palm to open the vice fast. Any larger and it'd be slow to open, and smaller and it, just feel too small.. As an added bonus the price for the HNT Tailvise is really low for what it is.

I also happened to pick up an MCW face vice - another sterling piece of precision machining. Beefy, precise, smooth, superbly finished, and made from chunky billets of aluminium. Its more than plenty strong enough. The screw is silky smooth and nipping it up with two fingers is more than enough for any work holding task. ( First thing my 6 year old said when played with it was ' wow thats SOOO smooth' )

Quite simply the two locally made vices are mighty fine to behold - and they're real workman like vices. There's no spare bling on them either, just pure beef and silk spliced into the same tool.

Lastly, personally I'm stoked that my money goes to supporting real aussie toolmakers rather than feeding freight companies and overseas manufacturers. ( no fancy schmansy websites or marketing - just pure function with a tiny dash of style)

[FenceFurniture]

Yes elver, I agree that the knob could in fact be shorter. Try starting with the tip of your forefinger, and roll it down through the V of your thumb and then up to the tip of your thumb - all one movement. With a modest amount of practice you can make it fly along.

The other thing that can be done it to glue a hex nut on the end of the knob and use a powered screwdriver to really motor it along. I have this setup on the travelling table for my drill press, and find it excellent (with a dedicated supercheap driver from Aldis). I actually mentioned this to Terry - as I recall the response was a derisive guffaw .

And yes, the MCW vise has a beautifully smooth action.

Btw, if you got the impression that I wanted a handwheel on the tailvise - I was referring to the Hovarter with its big clunky handle (esp if you have twin handles).

[elver]

ah on the hovarter that makes sense. ..

[Bushmiller]

Quite simply the two locally made vices are mighty fine to behold - and they're real workman like vices. There's no spare bling on them either, just pure beef and silk spliced into the same tool.

Lastly, personally I'm stoked that my money goes to supporting real aussie toolmakers rather than feeding freight companies and overseas manufacturers. ( no fancy schmansy websites or marketing - just pure function with a tiny dash of style)

Elver

I agree with you and one day I hope to put these two vices, which I already have, onto a bench .

In the meantime I too get a warm fuzzy feeling from having bought a home grown product that can hold it's head high anywhere in the world .

Regards
Paul

[Gunnaduit]

Elver, thanks for the encouraging review of the HNT tailvise (or wagon vise, I guess to be precise). And the MCW facevise.

Concentrating on the tailvise, and lifting info here from the http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodtailvice.htm webpage, the vise body is 32mm x 35mm x 280mm long, and the thread is 5/8" 6 tpi ACME.

For wagon vises, just accepting for now that that everyone (well, Christopher Schwarz anyway) seems to rave about the Benchcraft wagon vise, e.g. see
Tested: The Benchcrafted Wagon Vise - Popular Woodworking Magazine
Benchcrafted: American Vises that Defy Friction by Christopher Schwarz.# Copyright 2012.# Originally appeared in the Fine Tool Journal
Then perhaps that product can stand as a sort of benchmark against which other wagon vises can be compared. So the Benchcraft website,
BenchCrafted.com - Tail Vise, says that they use a rolled carbon-steel acme-threaded 1¼" dia. screw with 4 tpi pitch. Body dimensions of the Benchcraft vise, such as length of the screw, length of the two side-rails and the spacing apart between the side rails are not stated. Maybe sometime, one of the people who have bought one of these could measure theirs and tell us. Anyhow, on what we know, the HNT screw is half the diameter of the Benchcraft screw, so still small in comparison. Hmm.

I'm still not convinced about spending the money on the Benchcraft vise though. It turns out that the Benchcraft manufacturer, Jameel Abraham, blogged in detail about the prototype of the manufactured version, back in 2008, at Khalaf Oud Luthiery: Getting to Know Roubo - Part 2 - Tail Vise Update. This is highly worth reading if you were to make your own, because it basically tells everything you need to know and more. Among other detail, he says the screw is a left-hand acme-threaded screw and matching hexagonal nut, thread pitch 4 tpi.

Out of interest, I followed that lead, reading a machinist's thread at source for acme threaded rod and nuts, from which I decided to look at the online US manufacturer/seller of threaded rods Roton Products, Inc. Quality Lead Screws and Nuts for Power Transmission, under their Acme lead screws and nuts and found:
89566 Acme Square Nut, 1 1/4 - 5, LH, Steel, USD 29.16
59475 Acme Lead Screw, 1 1/4 - 5, LH, Steel, 18" length, USD 36.18
Total: USD 65.34
Granted, this is a 5 tpi thread (they don't have the 1.25" left-hand nuts in 4 tpi), and there are other manufacturers, etc., and this doesn't cover buying of a machine handwheel, or the steel billets required for milling the other parts, or US mail-order shipping costs; but you get the idea. Making your own might be feasible and cheaper than buying Benchcraft's product, if you have access to a metal lathe and mill. Or else, cost/benefit, just buy the damn thing from Benchcraft and accept the fact it's a bit blingy, but easier than spending too many hours sourcing materals and fabricating.

[Gunnaduit]

And by the way, I see that RossM over on the https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/h...59/index3.html thread, has found a key webpage on what looks to be the most elegant dead-simple way of maintaining parallel action on a leg vise (much simpler than chains or scissor beams or whatnot),

information on linear bearing system for a leg vice:

Roubo Workbench Leg Vise Alternative – Linear Bearings | The Wood Whisperer

Incidentally, the other link RossM gives, to http://www.lllars.com/the_workshop/r...ench/index.php, not only gives details on another pinless leg vise design, but shows more of the steps involved in getting cast-iron machine handwheels ready for mounting onto acme-threaded rods. Rather involved process. And, that guy, lllars whoever he is, summarises how he made his own Benchcraft-type wagon-vise similar to the Benchmark design, commenting that "in hindsight, I might have been better off just buying the Benchcrafted tail vise (very similar to the one I made)". Food for thought there.

[derekcohen]

A point about the BC wagon vise: I purchased this on the recommendation of Chris Vesper. Chris has one as well. When I asked him why he did not just make his own, he pointed out that it was constructed like the proverbial brick whatsit, and he could not replicate that. He was referring the the housing, not just the screw. Note that the housing is offset to permit the open section to remain so for use.

The HNT Gordon, as far as I recall (I have used one a few times) is enclosed and does not have this feature. Further, the dog on this vise is limited in the height range because it used a specially fitted dog. The HNT Gordon would be ideal for a 2" thick bench top. The BC is ideal for a 4" thick bench top. The BC is best fitted when the bench is under construction. The Gordon may be retro-fitted with much greater ease.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen]

Incidentally, the other link RossM gives, to http://www.lllars.com/the_workshop/r...ench/index.php, not only gives details on another pinless leg vise design, but shows more of the steps involved in getting cast-iron machine handwheels ready for mounting onto acme-threaded rods. Rather involved process. And, that guy, lllars whoever he is, summarises how he made his own Benchcraft-type wagon-vise similar to the Benchmark design, commenting that "in hindsight, I might have been better off just buying the Benchcrafted tail vise (very similar to the one I made)". Food for thought there.

We discussed this on WoodCentral about a month ago. The thread is here ..

stupidly simple pinless leg vise *LINK* *PIC*

Regards from Perth

Derek

[FenceFurniture]

I guess it comes down to what the Tail/Wagon vise will be used for by the particular operator. If you want an open section to be able to hold pieces vertically then the HNT won't do the job. If you just want to hold pieces on top of the bench for planing then it has plenty of holding power. For many pieces (up to say an inch thick) the knob only requires a flick to hold the piece satisfactorily. This is excellent for when you are planing several pieces of the same size - just as quick as any Quick Release mechanism, if not quicker.

A very important point to note (and I've mentioned this before, but could be buried in the plethora of posts) is that there is only a certain amount of pressure that can be put on a board before it bends anyway (depending on the thickness of the board of course). This leads me to think that for this type of operation the BC vise is actually way over-engineered - you'd never even go close to using maybe 20% of its holding capacity. It is different for holding a piece vertically through the slot - you may need the additional pressure of the BC. If you have another vise that will hold those pieces vertically then you would not need that feature.

You can order additional dogs of different heights for the HNT (and best to have two of each). I have the standard 1/4" high, plus a 1/2" and 3/4" (and the latter two are aluminium). In my reasonably limited experience I've never wanted for anything higher, but that may not always be the case. Bear in mind that you don't have to use the HNT dogs in front of the vise - only in the vise itself for the back end. For the front end you can use any dog/hole combo you like.