Workbench Vises - all the different ones in the same thread - contributions please

[Gunnaduit]

FF, you're making a good case for the HNT wagon vise. So many options.

Anyhow, I thought it would be interesting to compare the Benchcrafted and the Maguire wagon vise, they seem to be a similar size, but quite different solutions to construction, particularly in terms of guide runners (on the BC) versus guide shafts on the Maguire. I'm not sure about WWF policy and copyright etc, so I'll just put direct links to the pages from each site that have photos which, seen side-by-side, show the difference:
Maguire Wagon Vice - £278.50 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce
BenchCrafted.com - Tail Vise

I wonder which one might work better, in theory at least. I suspect the guide shafts might.

Like BC's, Maguire's version is over expensive. At least part of the extra cost of both is in their attempt to make the handles uneccessarily pretty. What is it with woodworkers that this is so important, that everything has to be tarted up? Anyway, in terms of attempting a wagon-vise home-build (or at least to appreciate the finished product you would be buying from Maguire), it appears from the light colour of the milled blocks on Maguire's vise that he is using aluminium billets (except for the steel billet used for the threaded block), and hardened ground shafts for the guide rails, as well as a bought-in threaded rod, which elsewhere he calls 'rapid-thread'. Note he says that he uses teflon coated bushes to run on the hardened steel shafts, but you can't see these from the angle at which the photo was shot. Another useful photo, but still not revealing the bushes, is at Richard Maguire Hardware Review.

[derekcohen]

You can order additional dogs of different heights for the HNT (and best to have two of each). I have the standard 1/4" high, plus a 1/2" and 3/4" (and the latter two are aluminium). In my reasonably limited experience I've never wanted for anything higher, but that may not always be the case. Bear in mind that you don't have to use the HNT dogs in front of the vise - only in the vise itself for the back end. For the front end you can use any dog/hole combo you like

.

Terry builds great planes, and this quality is reflected in his tail vise. HOWEVER, the use of different sizes of dogs is a serious weakness in my opinion. It may seem a small thing (well, they are - that is the issue ), but it is so much more convenient and easier to work with one dog that may be adjusted for height. Separate size dogs get lost or mislaid just when you need them.

I sometimes work with thin boards, 1/4" and less. Holding these would be impossible on the Gordon without another custom dog (it could not protrude more than 1/8"). I would like to see Terry somehow incorporating an adjustable dog into his tail vise, something along the lines of the one in the BC.

I managed for 20 years without a tail vise. They are not essential. However, after the past 12 months with the new bench and the new vises, I would never willingly return. A tail vise ala BC fits my needs - which was to reduce the extension at the rear of the bench - but this may may not be an issue for you. There are other types of tail vises that do different things (such as the Veritas Twin Screw). Forget costs for now. What fits in with YOUR needs?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[FenceFurniture]

I sometimes work with thin boards, 1/4" and less. Holding these would be impossible on the Gordon without another custom dog (it could not protrude more than 1/8"). I would like to see Terry somehow incorporating an adjustable dog into his tail vise, something along the lines of the one in the BC.

Yes, agreed. I've had a couple of situations where an 1/8" dog was necessary, and will be ordering a couple this time around.

[Gunnaduit]

Thanks Derek, for insightful comments about the HNT Gordon tailvise. Good question too, as to what one personally hopes to achieve with such-and-such hardware, if costs (and aesthetics) are momentarily put aside.

One thing that attracts me to the wagon vise idea, is that I often make use of the right hand end of my bench (I'm right-handed) for cutting-off with a tenon saw (the patient placed on a bench hook), and for routing tenons. The promise I see in a wagon vise is that the bench end remains as an unbroken bluff end, with no projecting tailvice block disturbing the area. Same applies to putting a front-vise at this end. Such out-hanging devices would frequently get in my way.

The point about having no spare room at the right end of a new bench for a vise that extends in and out, certainly applies to me. My space is not quite cramped, but there's no luxury of space either. As you say, Derek, one is tempted in such circumstances to maximise solid benchtop length and minimise the space needed for variable vise overhang.

Also, and I have no idea if this is an over-rated fear, but the wagon vise cannot sag whereas possibly the cantilevered block type of tailvise perhaps will. Or so it is said.

[Pac man]

so while a certain OP is busy off researching saw files... i have managed to purchase an unused still in box benchcrafted package from the US. The prev owner bought it with the idea of making the bench but never got around to it. Its currently sitting in the CA Shipto warehouse and will be winging its way here very soon.

It is not the newest handle version but the one before. It is the same version that Groggy has on his bench I think. The one before they went to the square hole in the base of the tail vise. It came with 2 Grammercy holdfasts as well (score).

I am looking forward to it arriving. I am deciding on whether to purchase the St Peters cross or the anchora yacht chain drive to better secure the leg vise and reduce bending over to move the leg vise pin. Has anyone installed the st peters cross or the chain drive with their benchcrafted setup?

[Bushmiller]

so while a certain OP is busy off researching saw files... i have managed to purchase an unused still in box benchcrafted package from the US. The prev owner bought it with the idea of making the bench but never got around to it. Its currently sitting in the CA Shipto warehouse and will be winging its way here very soon.

It is not the newest handle version but the one before. It is the same version that Groggy has on his bench I think. The one before they went to the square hole in the base of the tail vise. It came with 2 Grammercy holdfasts as well (score).

I am looking forward to it arriving. I am deciding on whether to purchase the St Peters cross or the anchora yacht chain drive to better secure the leg vise and reduce bending over to move the leg vise pin. Has anyone installed the st peters cross or the chain drive with their benchcrafted setup?

Pac man

Half your luck. Good score. I presume it was a very attractive price .

Regards
Paul

[Pac man]

Yes it was well worth it.

[NCArcher]

Have you got a bench to put it on or can we look forward to a monumental WIP?
Nice score either way.

[rfurzer]

Does anyone know who sells reproduction emmerts?

[FenceFurniture]

Unfortunately Lee Valley stopped making them a while ago. There is another one I believe, but i can't remember who is making it.

EDIT: Yes i can - Highland woodworking (just google Patternmakers vise)
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/p...rkingvise.aspx

Search:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=p...FuPC8gfV54HYAg

[rfurzer]

I have found a taiwanese foundry who makes the emmert clones for the USA market. They can sell direct to us in Australia but freight is a killer. It might be possible to club together on a larger order and reduce the freight. The vise/vice is $185US and shipping for one is $270.
If anyone is keen to find out about freight for a larger number - drop me a PM

R

[FenceFurniture]

I have found a taiwanese foundry who makes the emmert clones for the USA market. They can sell direct to us in Australia but freight is a killer. It might be possible to club together on a larger order and reduce the freight. The vise/vice is $185US and shipping for one is $270.
If anyone is keen to find out about freight for a larger number - drop me a PM

R

I was going to make some comments about freight last week.

First, sending more than one by airfreight would be logistically difficult, if not impossible.
Second, the two purchasers would have to be within driving distance of each other. Aust Post will not handle a 60 pound box, and even if they did the additional freight would be insane.
Third, I can get one shipped from the USA for about $200-220 (US), but there would still be trans-USA freight to California.
Fourth, I would be VERY concerned about the Quality Control coming directly out of the Taiwanese factory. Not that I think there is anything wrong with the production (and at least it's not China) but I DO think that it might be an excellent opportunity for them to ship off a "second" to an unsuspecting and grateful once-off purchaser. Not exactly going to be easy to return it.

Perhaps Highland Woodworking have a sea freight option? Lee Valley certainly does, but it is about the same cost as the airfreighters I use in California. What I'm driving at is that it may be possible to obviate the trans-USA freight if HW can sea freight.

[GraemeCook]

Hi Everyone

Not sure if this is the right place to post; if not then I am happy to start a new thread.

In the literature LenH says that his vises only need a quarter turn to tighten. On all the videos the vises are shown sliding extremely smoothly, and then being tightened by precisely half a turn on the handle => vertical up to vertical down. Never is a further slightest part of a turn applied. The first fastening is always perfect! I am suspicious....

Have just spent a weekend working with a friend who has a very elderly Record quick action vise that works very well, but not super smoothly as in the Hovarter videos. Often we would slide the jaws shut then it would require a full turn, or a turn and a half, or two turns, and sometimes more, to secure the material in the jaws. It was never a precise half turn as with the Hovarter.

My questions relate to the Hovarter:

• What happens if the object is not firmly gripped with that half turn of the handle? Can I simply turn the handle a bit more as with conventional vises? The very short cog racks suggest no.
• Can I apply light or very high pressure as the task warrants? Hovarter seems to treat the vises very gently, as though they are fragile.

Or have I missed something.

Cheers

Graeme

[FenceFurniture]

Don't know the answers Graeme, but Timbernut would, as he has one, possibly two Hovarters. (maybe send him a PM or email)

[GraemeCook]

Thanks FF

Good syggestion, have done so.


Cheers

Graeme