Thread: Building a house around a workshop

Your garage is already to small if you want to work on a car as you need at least 6m wide x 8m long, so just extend your workshop straight back from there with another 8m lenght making it 16m long on the south boundary side and build the house of this. All you need in the house is a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, laundry and lounge, come dining room.

Thanks Jim,

I'm hoping that working on the car will be an infrequent event so any extra space can be shared with the workshop. Also, all of my workshop tools will be on mobile bases.

I had originally planned a tandem style garage like you mentioned 11m x 4.5m with the back half reserved for a workshop. however, given the internal house requirements the designer has just come back to us to tell us that we cannot ideally fit everything within our envelope without giving up more of the back garden than we wish for. The designer has therefore requested sqm numbers for the workshop. Having not had a workshop before - nor the list of tools I expect to buy - I am not sure how much space I would need.

It seems a single car garage can be a "workable" solution but a double garage is more comfortable. One pretty good layout for a single garage seems to be the guy from Lincoln St Woodworks: You won't BELIEVE everything in this SMALL SHOP - YouTube

How much space you need will also depend on what you are working on.
Just for an example, If I am working on a door, it takes up the space where I park my car. If I was to work on two doors at the same time, the space becomes very tight. This assumes the doors are lying down and I want to walk around them.
The same thing would apply if you were assembling a cabinet. Yes tools may not take up much space, but once you set up machinery and dust extraction (can you put the dust extractor outside?) free space may disappear quickly.
For me, about 1 1/2 car spaces would be nice, but I do not have bulky tools or a 3hp dust extractor. A 2.7m ceiling or higher would also be nice (compared to my 1.9 slab ceiling).

25 sqm is going to be real tight to fit everything on your list into that space.
Even putting everything on wheels that list looks more like about 40m^2 to me.

Either way you will have to get creative with storage.
13" Benchtop planer and SCMS stored under benches.
SCMS - get one that has rails facing forward, or a glide saw, Both take up less space than a standard saw.
If you get a 10" combination machine maybe the 13" planer is a tad redundant.
Router table could be on an extension wing of the table saw.
Put the dust extractor outside the shed.

Can you go up?

When we built space was not an issue, just our budget wasn't enough for a separate shop building. The builder suggested putting the shop over the garage and as the house was 2 story it made sense because you are only adding the cost of a floor and walls. The 2 car garage below and the shop above is the same size (630 sq ft/28.5 sum). I can walk into the shop from inside the house but you could put external stairs so as to not take any space away from the garage and either set up a hoist outside to raise heavy items (machines) and finished projects down or a trap door in the floor to the garage below to do the same. My only regret is not finding the cash to make it a 3 car garage and equal size shop above.

Pete

Originally Posted by Kickback

Hi all,

As I'm planning to make the move towards having a designated space for some woodworking, I've been reading around some of the sub-forums and it seems a common theme that the earlier you can consider the design of your workshop, the better. Well, I am in the early stages of designing a knockdown rebuild on a suburban block so now seems the best time to start figuring things out.

I would like to set up a small workshop for some woodworking but without currently owning many of the workshop tool, I am struggling to figure out what size I should be aiming for for my workshop. I know, any size will be too small I already need a single garage size to store a classic vehicle and my ocean fishing kayak stuff. So on top of the used garage space, what sizes are people managing with and what do tools do you have. Would a single garage space be too small or should I be looking at something closer to a double garage space?

I suppose the list of tools I envisage having are as follows:
- 3HP Dust extraction
- Table saw
- 10inch combination jointer thicknesser
- 13inch benchtop planer
- SCMS
- Router table
- Drill press
- workbench
- small oscillating belt/spindle sander
- small timber storage??
- maybe a small bandsaw

I had originally proposed a workshop space of 5.5 x 4.5m (25sqm) but with all of the other house requirements, the designer seems to be struggling to fit it all in.

Any helps would be appreciated

Cheers, Nath

Hi Nath

My workshop is a double garage - but with about an extra 1.5m in length over the standard. This houses all the tools you mention, as well as my car (which is a ragtop, so lives indoors at night. My wife’s lives outside). Many years ago that space held a restoration (Porsche 356A) - tight squeeze and not ideal.

To get all in now, all the machines live on one half, and can be moved on wheels if necessary. The bench plus hand tools all live along the far wall at the end of the garage. That extra 1.5m makes it possible to work at the bench even when my car is in the garage. Generally, I back it out when busy on a project, which creates a lot of space for assembly benches.

Old photo showing some of the challenges …



Machines are close to one another, but with enough space. This reflects how I prefer to set them up, which needs to be a consideration for you … how you will use the space you have …



Another rather old photo of the rear of the garage/workshop, to show you what an extra 1.5m can do for you ….



It looks a bit better than this these days

I advise that the kayak, etc be moved into its own shed. That is what I ended up doing. I was a fanatic windsurfer, with a large collection of equipment. This photo is from about 25 years ago ….



Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Unfortunately, I don't think we will be able to stretch the garage to a triple garage - i.e. single for the classic camper and kayaking toys, and double for a woodshop. Our budget for the build is really only going to stretch for a single storey as well - otherwise a larger workshop could probably be worked out. The only way of potentially getting the camper out of the garage would be into a carport, but given it will be a lot more exposed to weather and living so close to the sea I'm not too keen on this idea.

BobL - the plan for the extractor would more likely be boxing it inside it's own "room and venting outside, rather than having it outside to try and avoid neighbour complaints. When I picked up my jointer combo from rogerwilco the other week he seemed to have similar space (maybe 1.5garage) and had it boxed in in the corner

One option would obviously be keeping the classic on the driveway when space is needed - most likely during assembly of larger builds like cabinet/furniture etc. Not something you want to be doing every time you want to work, but potentially maximizing the space during those larger projects.

Nice Porsche Derek, I suppose I should reciprocate. My classic in question is something a little more 'working man' a 1972 VW kombi, but with some upgrades:
Before: 72deluxe_zps6e9468c7.jpg

After:FAX275K_side_interior2.jpg
35_zps563add3c.jpg

Hi Nath

I would kill for a Kombi. My 356A is, alas, no more. I sold it a decade ago as there was mechanical work (gearbox) I could not do, and no one in Perth (that I knew of then) to do the work. Got ripped off several thousands by charlatans. Immediately got post-seller's remorse (I still have this all those years later!) and purchased a second-hand Boxster S. It is now 21 years old and looks and drives like new. Still miss the 356 . I love that era, and your Kombi, even though it is a decade later.

We will be moving home in a few years when I retire. The house we are downsizing to does not yet have a garage/shed. There is space for a 1 1/2 width garage, and my aim is to make this double length. So I share some of your current needs.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nice Kombi. I owned one for about 45 minutes when I was 20 years old back in the early 2000's living in Brisbane. I bought it from a delightful hippie couple living in The Gap, but I was an inexperienced driver and didn't have the skill to coddle such an old and idiosyncratic motor car yet. I didn't get the revs right when shifting down a gear to pull up a fairly steep hill. The clutch or gearbox gave up, and I got stuck. The seller felt terrible, gave my me my money back and took the car back. I'm sure he didn't want it getting thrashed by a reckless youth!

Anyway, to the workshop. Here's a few photos for you.
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Its 5.9m long x 4.7m wide. And it's pretty tight. With this amount of space, you've gotta live with some compromises. Here's some things that work for me:

• Attach a folding outfeed table to the cabinet saw.
  This was surprisingly straight forward, and it's a great feature. Small footprint for storage, and fully capable outfeed table when I needed it.
• Ditch the SCMS.
  You'll see I've still got one, but it's stored on a shelf, and I rarely use it. I find that a jigsaw is great for rough cuts (unless you're doing 100, in which case it's worth getting the SCMS out), and then I do finish cuts on the cab saw with a sled.
• Make your own custom mobile trolleys.
  Like my sanding station. It's got a belt and disc, drum, and spindle sanders all on the same trolley. It's not ideal... I have to get on a step to use the spindle, and if I'm putting a lot of material through the drum sander, it gets pretty tiresome and awkward because it's so low to the ground. But, this inconvenience is worth it. As a hobbyist, I'm not using those machines all the time, and when I need them, I'm glad I've got em.
• Dust collection.
  I know you're all over this, 'cause we talked about it. I'm really pleased with my setup. I have drops where I need them, the dust is all enclosed, and having the room created a storage space on top for things that I rarely need to access.
• Vertical storage rack.
  I'm lucky to sneak 2.4m long boards vertically into my rack. So I generally buy timber in that length whenever possible, and it means I can store a lot in a small space. I designed my rack to also have space for some full sheets, sheet offcuts, and shorts. I always want more storage... but I'm frequently amazed and what I can get into those racks in such a tiny amount of space
• Systainer toolbox stack.
  I went with Makita boxes (most of my power tools aren't Makita) because they're cheap and easy to get. It saves a tonne of space, and it's awesome to have the tool and it's accessories all in one spot.
• Move everything else out.
  I built a 3.5m x 1.5m tool shed with a roller door up the side of the house. This free'd up an incredible amount of space. Previously I had a problem with all that garden cruft getting in the way. This was essential for making my workshop space usable.
• Get everything off the floor, and work clean.
  Every time I use the workshop, I leave it better than I found it. This is good practice in any workshop, but I think it's essential in a small shop. If you don't take care of it every time, stuff builds up, gets in the way, and all of a sudden, you're literally falling over yourself trying to work in the mess.
• Outsource for the big stuff
  I relatively frequently send stuff out for CNC, or pay by the hour at a local shop to use their wide belt sander (e.g. finishing a big table top). I'm never gonna have those tools due to space and expense. It's not cheating to send it out! I'm also currently a student at Melbourne Guild of Fine Woodworking, which means I have access to industrial stuff, like Altendorf panel saw, gigantic 24 inch jointer, 24 inch thicknesser etc. This makes larger pieces about 1000 times easy to make. It's a bit far away... but there are other machine shops with industrial equipment that can be used in a similar way, there's one in North Melbourne.

I can't really say what the best size or orientation for a workshop would be... I've just spent 2 years optimising my setup based on what I've got!

Good luck!

Thanks for the pics and details Johnny, much appreciated. Your space is almost as identical to what I had allocated for the workshop - but also I have to keep in mind I will have temporary use of the kombi space which will be an additional 20sqm

I've been reading a few threads on here about how necessary/valid having a SCMS is - considering poor dust collection, large amount of real estate space etc. As you mentioned, how much a SCMS will be used when you have a crosscut/mitre sled on a table saw may be a nice to have. I'll have a circular/jigsaw for breaking down larger sheet/lengths and maybe its one of the last items I'll buy.

I do intend to keep as much superfluous stuff out of the workshop as we do have a 3.9x1.9m shed for garden stuff and bikes etc.

Yeah, I found the scms useful as a construction tool, particularly when building stud frames. But it’s so messy I hate using it inside the workshop, so it’d really an outside tool, and I only drag it out if I have a lot of cutting to do. Jigsaw connected to my dust extractor is good for rough cross-cuts when breaking down. Soon, I think I’ll buy a large backsaw as this would be even more convenient! For big sheets, I use a track saw connected to dust extractor. I don’t really like working with sheets, so that is pretty infrequent too.

Well depends of what sort of work you are planning to do.. Ie would you be cutting full plywood sheets on the table saw etc..
Make sure you put all the tools on mobile bases.. so they can be tucked away
use the machine footprint and see how to organise stuff..

1
I suppose the list of tools I envisage having are as follows:
- 3HP Dust extraction would take about 1.2 x 0.7 meters of space.. would take up 1.2 x 0.7 meters of space..
- Table saw - table saw (this one is a bit trickier.. as you need to account space for the full sheet.. so basically you would go 2.2 metres from a blade to the wall on the left of the blade.. then 2.5 metres from the start of the blade to the wall at the front of the saw.. ) this is to cater full width and length cutting / ripping of the full panel sheet 1200x 2400.. and would dictate position of your table saw.. its good to include table extensions
- 10inch combination jointer thicknesser - think of the length of timber.. go about 3 metres both sides
- 13inch benchtop planer this one is more flexible as it can be placed on top of lets say table saw..
- SCMS can sit back to back with the combination jointer / thicknesser
- Router table - try to incorporate router table into table saw extension
- Drill press - your material sits high so it can be in line with bandsaw... footprint about 0.6 x 0.7 metres.
- workbench Incorporated into the table saw so will be multipurpose bench.. will be material support for the table saw.. router table and work bench
- small oscillating belt/spindle sander incorporate into workbench
- small timber storage?? use the wall and install timber racking .. racking to sit above drill press, bandsaw etc..
- maybe a small bandsaw


In saying all of that.. I was able to fit all of the above and few more bits into 5.5 x 6.0 metres dedicated workshop.. without the need of moving machinery that often.. move was usually required only if I needed more floorspace to assemble bigger items.. like 2.7 metre table.. also you will need that floorspace for gluing up etc.. ie i had to laminate boards to make 1000x 2700 table top..

Depending on your house design there are ways you can get around having to "fit it all in"

For example you could do the following
- Locate dust collector outside the garage, in its own enclosure
- Timber storage can be outside if you make a storage box/cabinet
- Glueup area can be setup outside if required ie saw horses + torsion box

My place i have a third garage that is reserved for woodworking, its 5x6m space I have the tools you mention plus a dual drum sander and motorbike.

If you're building small pieces ie coffee table sized items shouldn't be an issue, larger items like dining tables etc will need a bigger space.

Also if you have a verandah it can also double as "dusty" workspace ie breaking down sheet goods, lathe work, sanding, gluing space etc

The way i've structured my space at home is things that will get damaged by environmental factors are in the working space, ie machinery
Anything that doesn't need to be in the working space located outside/in their own enclosure
Things that are easily moved, is light weight or used infrequently is put onto castors and moved out of the way
Consider alternative uses to large machinery eg my workbench doubles as an table saw outfeed, therefore the table saw also doubles as additional workbench when required.
Move things that can be stored in the elements outside, eg i used to have my bike in the workshop, these have since been moved to the garden shed.

Working in a small space is a hassle, ie lots of moving machinery around to get to what you need, but you'll be surprised how much you can fit in a small workspace.

If you can avoid it I would not recommend putting the workbench level with machine although sometimes you might not have a choice. I put my main workbench behind my TS as I thought it could be useful as an out feed table but I am forever moving stuff around on the bench to use the TS. To cut a large sheet I have to completely clear the workbench bench which is a right PITA. Because of this I have stopped using my TS to break up large sheets and either used an Al square tube as a guide and a high TPI blade in a hand held circular OR i take the sheets to my mates WW factory where he has a large sliding panel saw. I keep thinking of getting a track saw but I don't cut many sheets so can't quite justify this - yet.

If you have your machines on wheels you may want to think about locating an internal alley way opposite your main doorway to act as an in/out feed path for when working long narrower pieces. For pieces longer than about 1.8m I wheel my planer thicknesser over to the doorway. Same for my WW and MW bandsaw and my SCMS. I buy steel rod and tube and Al in 6-8m lengths and break it up by locating the SCMS /bandsaw in the door way and have the material coming in from the door.
Remember to put a dust extraction point nearby.

Door way widths are important. A roller door is handy BUT you lose valuable wall space, while a standard personal door can be too small for some machines. At the last minute I changed the main door from a standard width to a 1.2m wide door which has turned out the be well worthwhile.