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Thread: A Real Workshop

  1. #586
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    Default Incentive to complete 3 Phase supply

    Getting power to the shed has proved to be much more expensive than I had been led to believe.

    I have had the shed wired for 3 phase but ran out of funds to get the upgraded wiring from the street to my meter box. An extra $2,500, I have been quoted?

    Recently I completed some good paying projects and had the opportunity to bid on a bigger Drum Sander to replace the Performax 16-32.

    I have been searching for a few years for a small wide belt sander but they were always too big, too expensive or came up when I didn't have the funds.

    It just so happened that a Powermatic Dual Drum sander came up for auction and I won it for less than the funds I had available.

    Of course it needs 3 Phase power.

    Now their was an incentive to finish several smaller projects so I could fund the 3 Phase connection.
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    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

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  3. #587
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    Default Dust Extraction

    The Drum sander needs good dust extraction.
    I have a 3 phase dust extractor in the Dusty Shed.

    Now was the time to decide on the dust extraction system for the shed.
    My preference is to run 6" steel pipe as the main network and PVC pipe and/or flexible pipe to the machines.

    There were two steel pipe duct suppliers in Sydney that provided quotes. They ranged fron $2,00 to $3,000 which is out of my price range at the moment.

    Carbatec had some good prices on PVC ducting packages. The 4" ducting might get me out of trouble but I wasn't keen on buying a duct system to do and average job then paying again for a better, 6" system when I could afford it.

    I decided to buy a short section of 6" steel ducting and enough 4" PVC ducting to connect to the main machines.......Drum Sander, Table saw and Router table.
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    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

  4. #588
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Default

    BobL would suggest (nay implore) you to run 6" all the way to the machine.

    Is 6" PVC an option?
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  5. #589
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    McBride BC Canada
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    Default

    Power: just the other day, I heard of an electronics box of tricks called a "phase converter."
    Didn't look into it as I don't need it. Dedicated for the sake of a single machine, might be worth some exploration.

  6. #590
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    Camden, NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robson Valley View Post
    Power: just the other day, I heard of an electronics box of tricks called a "phase converter."
    Didn't look into it as I don't need it. Dedicated for the sake of a single machine, might be worth some exploration.
    Scally, quick, read this....

    VFD install summaries

    ...... post #25 is my example. Basically, you don't need to install 3 phase power (especially) for a single machine.
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  7. #591
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
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    Default

    You could probably buy 8 or so VFD's (Variable Frequency Drive) for the cost of the 3 phase hookup you mentioned above. I just received a 4Kw unit for the 5HP motor on my cyclone. It was $170US ($225Aus) plus shipping for another $55 US. It would have been $70 but the sales person at Powtran gave me a break when I asked nicely. Less money for the smaller units.

    Pete

  8. #592
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    Default Power Options

    I do plan to run solid 4" pipe from the 6" main line to get as close as possible to each machine. Something like the sample layout in the attached pic.
    My study of many of the posts on dust extraction show substantial benefits from the solid pipe over flexible hose so I will use it as much as possible.

    The clear pipe can be run down the wall and maybe direct to the table saw. Similar with the router table with flexible pipe for the connections above and below.
    The clear PVC spread on the lawn wont be used like that at all. This is the main layout that will all be 6" metal pipe now. I'll use the clear 4" as drop downs where ever I can.

    The Dual Drum sand has two 4" dust extraction outlets on the lid. You need to open the lid regularly to change paper and clean it so the drop from the 6" line will all be flexible pipe.

    Thanks for the suggestions for the electronic magic box phase converter. I have read a lot of the posts about them and would have gone that way if I hadn't already wired the shed for 3 phase.

    Part of the reason for going 3 phase was to be able to buy 3 phase machines at a good price. I have a large table saw, drum sander and dust extractor so far.

    I am expecting the electrician soon but there appears to be delays getting approvals and new meters.
    I have a few holes to cut in the shed for the ducting so that will keep me out of trouble while I'm waiting.
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    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

  9. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scally View Post
    I do plan to run solid 4" pipe from the 6" main line to get as close as possible to each machine. Something like the sample layout in the attached pic.
    It sounds like you need to do some more reading in the dust forum.

    4" pipes of any length simply don't move enough air for most wood working machines. Even running 6" all the way right up to the machine with a 4" port you will have more or less wasted your money on the 6" ducting so the ports on the machines must be opened up to 6" (or use multiple 4" ports and remember t takes 3 x 4" ports to equal 1 x 6") to take full advantage of the 6" ducting.

    The only machines in my shed where I have used 4" ducting are on short arms to collect dust from my DP because drilling does not produce much dust (as measured by a article counter), and on a metal grinder station.

    My study of many of the posts on dust extraction show substantial benefits from the solid pipe over flexible hose so I will use it as much as possible.
    The only time I would use flexy is where you have no choice and even then the lengths should as short as possible.
    There is also FLEXY and "flllexxxyyy" the stiff the flexy the better it seems to perform

    The Dual Drum sand has two 4" dust extraction outlets on the lid. You need to open the lid regularly to change paper and clean it so the drop from the 6" line will all be flexible pipe.
    The 2 x 4" ports are simply not enough on that machine, if anything they should be 2 x 6" but at least 3 x 4"

    Thanks for the suggestions for the electronic magic box phase converter. I have read a lot of the posts about them and would have gone that way if I hadn't already wired the shed for 3 phase.
    When I built my shed in 2011 I also had it wired for 3P but the house isn't, we are finally getting it next year as a part of an underground power program. However since then I have swapped about half of the motors on my single phase machines over t 3phase just so I could use 3P converters. The reason for this is these converters offer much more than 3P power. For instance it would enable you to spin your dust extractor at 60Hz so it can draw 20% more air.

  10. #594
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Thornton NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scally View Post
    The Drum sander needs good dust extraction.
    I have a 3 phase dust extractor in the Dusty Shed.

    Now was the time to decide on the dust extraction system for the shed.
    My preference is to run 6" steel pipe as the main network and PVC pipe and/or flexible pipe to the machines.

    There were two steel pipe duct suppliers in Sydney that provided quotes. They ranged fron $2,00 to $3,000 which is out of my price range at the moment.

    I decided to buy a short section of 6" steel ducting
    Can I ask which one you bought from? Seems most sources of modular steel duct around Ncle are reselling Eximo, at least the places at Cardiff, Wallsend and of course Blackwoods. I'm interested to know if you found much difference in product between vendors.

  11. #595
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    Default Duct suppliers

    Thanks richmond68, I didn't find the Newcastle suppliers. I asked around but obviously I didn't ask the right people.
    I saw a system in Toronto using Eximo and it looked good quality. I thought he said he bought it through Felder but I'm not sure.

    I got a quote from Airtight and Ezi Duct in Sydney.
    The products appear similar in their catalogues. I went to Eziduct who were the cheaper quote and the ducting looked fine so I went with them.
    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

  12. #596
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    Default

    Thanks for the advice BobL.
    I appreciate the 6" all the way is the best way to go.
    Unfortunately I need a few more good paying commissions before I can get to where I would like to be.
    I am upgrading from a shovel and broom so this should be an improvement.
    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

  13. #597
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    Default

    Just a note for newbies that might be reading this thread regarding the clear PVC kit described in post #592.
    I note carbatetc currently have this ki on special but don't tempted by this as for about the same price it is possible (at least here in WA) to purchase a greater length of 6" PVC and the junctions to cover the same items, except for the blast gates but they are not hard to make.

  14. #598
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scally View Post
    Thanks richmond68, I didn't find the Newcastle suppliers. I asked around but obviously I didn't ask the right people.
    Thanks Scally, good to know. For future reference, Instalair at Wallsend and Austedan at Cardiff both supply Eximo ducting. I'm not sure but I think the flanged modular duct from Eximo and Eziduct do connect to each other. There is also Maxon Machinery at Boolaroo who do have used ducting from time to time, most likely very large spiral duct but you never know your luck.

  15. #599
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    Default

    Thanks richmond68, I will definitely check them out.
    Austedan are nearby and I had a quick look at their web site. I think they will have compatible ducting.
    I have a fair bit to go so I might be a regular their as I can afford to do more.
    Scally
    __________________________________________
    The ark was built by an amateur
    the titanic was built by professionals

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