Thread: Shed build

Originally Posted by PaintMan

Hi Steven,
My shed co was reluctant to do a mezzanine but designed it so I could add it later.

What did they change?
I want to do a similar thing. What I plan is to build an office in the back with a timber frame. Except I will build the roof of the office strong enough to be a floor. Then use the area on top for storage. I'm happy to build all the frame in wood but should I be asking for some additional steel bits in the shed to attach it to?

Hi Dave,
as I have built several sheds previously I was very careful not just with maximising the space but ensuring the structure design and components used were capable of adding the mezzanine as well as being made from Aussie metal. I therefore chose a shed company that used welded tubular steel portal frames that enabled me to weld on support brackets for the floor. I also added the 100x100 x 4mm hoist post that also supports the mezzanine. (this post has extra reinforced concrete under the base.) The hoist and floor design was done by my son who is in the steel business. I have been using this shed for 4 years now and have quite heavy loads of timber above without issues. Previously my last shed was a large American barn style with a free standing mezzanine down the center but the access was poor and the barn style is more difficult to seal up against the elements. In my experience both with my own buildings as well as with a large local woodworking shed I found lots of companies use lightweight designs and lower grade imported steel as well as trying to pass off painted panels as Bluescope Colourbond when they are not. One local company is now providing full package weight data with all of their sheds in order to differentiate from some of these low cost products. Your idea of a office with roof storage should work fine and I would think could be independent of the shed design so no need for shed structure to carry any load.
Cheers,
Paintman

Originally Posted by PaintMan

Hi Steven,
It uses 150mm C19 joists 450 at centers fitted into nesting beams welded at top and bolted at bottom with yellow tongue flooring.

Mine will be similar. What fasteners did you use, and did you need to pre-drill either the yellowtongue or the beams?

Hi lyricnz,
I used m16 flange head bolts for the bottom beam face connecting to the nesting beam and welds for the top so that the yellow tongue was flush over the top. Yes I did drill 19mm holes in each end of the joists and 450 centers in the nesting beams which was quite difficult as the beams are high strength steel. For the yellow tongue I used standard self drilling countersunk headed screws which work best with a pre-drilled hole. If I could have got the Robertson square drive no pre-drilling would be necessary due to the better fitment of the driver in the screw head.
Cheers,
Paintman
Paintman

Originally Posted by PaintMan

Hi lyricnz,
I used m16 flange head bolts for the bottom beam face connecting to the nesting beam and welds for the top so that the yellow tongue was flush over the top. Yes I did drill 19mm holes in each end of the joists and 450 centers in the nesting beams which was quite difficult as the beams are high strength steel. For the yellow tongue I used standard self drilling countersunk headed screws which work best with a pre-drilled hole. If I could have got the Robertson square drive no pre-drilling would be necessary due to the better fitment of the driver in the screw head.
Cheers,
Paintman
Paintman

Hi Paintman and thanks for taking the time to reply and your shed looks great. The shed company who are cutting the shed into a kit (I'm guessing not Aust. steel) said it won't be ready till November. Then the insulation then the wall material then the electrics and the list grows and grows.

The stairs are a huge space taker as you know and sitting in front of the CAD system is a dead set pain. And trying to work out where to work out where everything can fit is difficult plus on one side of the shed I have 3 huge windows almost 2m x 2.2m double glazed so one wall isn't much of an option for storage.
But sooner of later I will have to bite the bullet and go for it. I'm not to worried as I can change pretty much what I like...up to a point that is.
Power to the shed is still my biggest issue and I think it will cost a bomb as I know sweet FA about electricals. I'm totally colour blind and was scared off from a young age so stayed away ever since. But as I said earlier I also own about 3 or 4 maybe I'm not sure 3ph machines and I'm trying to buy another Disc sander which uses heaps of power to get going. Anyway it is getting closer to kick off I suppose and once again thanks for taking the time to reply.
Steven

Yes I agree fitting in the stairs is a big issue. I waited for quite a while after setting up the machines to get the best layout and have since found there is a lot of usable space under the stairs that comes in handy. I have 6 x 15 amp single phase circuits all of which I changed over to the heavy duty screw on plugs as the standard 15 amp plugs tend to partially slip out due to the weight of the machine leads. I also have a 6.6 Kva rooftop solar which keeps the power bills in check. At my local wood group we also just added a second 6.6 Kva solar system to help cut power costs as the large dust extractor can cost $4 per hour to run. Re the steel not all imported material is bad but some of the lower price stuff can be difficult to use. At present supply is an issue and price increases are a regular downside so I would get building as soon as possible.
Paintman

Originally Posted by PaintMan

. . . I have 6 x 15 amp single phase circuits all of which I changed over to the heavy duty screw on plugs as the standard 15 amp plugs tend to partially slip out due to the weight of the machine leads.

I have 7, 15A machines and a 20A furnace all on non-screw GPOs (some for as long as 11 years) and apart from an initial problem with the furnace cable haven't come across this problem. On the stiff and heavy (4mm) furnace cable I used a hot air gun on low to slowly mould a 90º bend in the cable so it hangs straight down and after that I have had no problems.

Where I have seen this problem is ay the mens shed on machinery that is moved around where sockets and plugs are constantly swapped around and this appears can eventually weaken the springiness of the contacts. All my machines situ in the same place and more or less on the same GPO which is probably why I don't have this problem.

Hi Paintman, i noticed one of your pics you have a Pot belly stove/heater. Can you burn sawdust in yours or it presents major issues. The other thing is by chance did you go through council for the stove or just wing it?
Steven

Hi Steven,
I do not burn sawdust as this is a very small stove heater where I only burn small timber scrap off cuts that are usually blackwood or silky oak. I do not use it that much except for a few days in winter as the shed insulation means it is usually ok for working. I am aware of machines you can buy that do extrude compressed plugs of sawdust that are then sold for burning in stoves. I have also seen a Scandinavian system for home and Hot House Ag heating that used compressed sawdust pellets. These pellets are available in Australia in 15-20Kg bags so I assume someone must be producing them locally. I do generate quite a bit of shavings from my extensive timber thicknessing and dispose of it via a friend in 200 Lt bags for his farm use. At my wood club we do generate large quantities of sawdust and shavings and have a large trailer fitted to the dust extractor system for disposal to local farms every week or so.
No we do not have any need for council to be involved in the shed at all just independent inspectors for shed approval. Mezzanine,stairs,hoist,and stove were all later added. Only question from inspection was to check the overflow outputs from the five poly water tanks at the side and rear of the shed.
Cheers,
Paintman

Thanks for the replies. As to the sawdust burning I was watching Ishitani burning sawdust in his fire and I was really taken by it. What seems a 100 yrs ago when I did an apprenticeship burring saw dust was a huge problem even though our incinerator was huge. So I did a bit of a google search and found heaters that are actually designed to burn saw dust or even finer. For me anyway I thought this was really great but I'm yet to do any search's if you can get them in Aust.
Steven

614E1863-8829-405A-8256-451AC98287AE.jpgOk , well the shed Is nearly finished, and I think it will be another day or two before the shed is in a lockup state. The outside flashings etc and then Mezz floor, inside floor coating of both mezz and concrete, then lights, and power and as you know the list goes on and along with copious amounts of money.

All up the shed is a little over 11.5m long 6.5m wide and 3.3m on the boundary. The mezz is roughly 7.5m long and 6.5m wide and roof is a 45 degree pitch. I needed the pitch height to make the mezz floor have storage space. CDF1BAE5-B3D0-42F2-BFF9-EA087E4116DC.jpg9D32D74D-2208-46CC-8A32-E9945D15AE0A.jpg9C08E40A-5252-4D80-9997-61F1A2F63E4B.jpgB801F040-1832-4FB3-BDC8-87371C9151A1.jpg

It looks like my future shed will have a pitch of 15 degrees. I really wanted around 30, Partly for the reasons you gave (storage) and partly because hot air rises and party because that is the best angle for the solar panels.
However my local council reduced the max height from 5m to 4.5m for our zone. Which has meant that about 70% of the sheds have had to apply for a relaxation for $1,600+. Which as far as I know have always been granted. So this is just a rort. Locally it has become known as the shed tax. Anyway what it means is that although we will exceed this 4.5m height we are all trying to stay as close to that as possible. For example, say your shed is 4.65m, that is a fairly easy decision to grant a relaxation for an additional 150mm. However it means the solar panels are less than optimal, sheds are hotter than they need to be, it is less than ideal for the higher wind rating we have and so on. All for no benefit that I can see.

There is a school of thought that if you have to apply for a relaxation anyway then why not go all out. However I don't have the budget for that so although we will be over, we will be close and thus hopefully obvious to council that we are trying to conform with the spirit of the rules, if not the the letter of them.
Rant over.

Anyways.. I am impressed with your 45 degree pitch and I can see the benefit.

Thanks Dave, I went the 45Degrees and 3.3m on the boundary based on a few issues. Location on the block , next door neighbour and so on. At the end of the day council was a pretty painful process and heaven forbid if common sense ever crept into the argument. The hurdles you have to jump are pretty interesting. Arborist report as about next door neighbours trees and then the colour and aesthetics, None of which are 2 minute decisions.
Say colour for example. First you consult the shed company then you go to council. If they object its then back to shed company for another choice and then back to council via the Heritage Architect then onto council and trust me days if not weeks go between each choice. Heritage listing report, and the amount of engineering reports were pretty substantial. All up including Co Vid I think took close to 2 years and yet the guys putting the shed together took 6 working days.
Steven

One of my farming friends put up a huge shed on his front boundary near a main rural road. It was bright corrugated gal steel.

The local council in the south east corner of Melbourne objected to the colour and sent him a notice that he had to paint it.

At a clearance sale he aquired a 44 gal drum of bright yellow paint cheap. With a broom he painted the shed.

The council said wrong colour and took him to court.

The magistrate asked "What colour did you specify?".

"None, just that he had to paint it" said the council lawyer looking at the paperwork.

"Case dismissed" said the magistrate.

The reason that the paint was at a clearance was that it was faulty and didn't dry properly. The nice gal shed is now covered with leaves and grass sticking to it and looks terrible.

My friend makes it a point of rubbing the council's nose in it every time he has any dealings with them.