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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaIN2203 View Post
    Thanks for you advice Midnight Man. Yep my shed is your standard "monument" colour Colourbond, the concrete was poured after the shed was erected so the floor is sealed.
    I installed foil backed insulation (not sure what it's called) when I put the roof on.
    My plan was to use 90 x 35 structural pine tek screwed on the flat to the metal purlins as a frame, I will rebate the screws so the head is not sticking out. I was then planning to screw 12mm ply to the timber frame. Are you saying that if I put normal wool insulation in the gap there is a chance that mould could develop over time?

    I'm not sure if this will be my "forever" shed, but I still want to do it right.

    Thanks for your help.
    For what it's worth, we installed this stuff: AIR-CELL Insulshed 50 | Shed Insulation | Kingspan | Australia on the walls and ceiling. Note - both walls and ceiling, the ceiling alone still leaves the possibility of condensation on the walls.

    As you can see, it goes between the purlins/shed structure and the outside cladding. This creates a condensation barrier, and as a result, irrespective of outside/inside temperature differences, the inside of our shed no longer develops any condensation.

    Once you get to that point, you can safely line it with nearly anything, and have no concern over mould.

    I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that mould will only occur when dampness/moisture cannot dry itself in a reasonable time naturally - if you prevent moisture to begin with, you don't have anything to be concerned about.

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  3. #17
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    Apr 2018
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    Adelaide
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    Thanks MM, I had a quick look at the Kingspan website, and will email them to clarify a few things.

    Have you attached the ply to your timber frames yet? Did you use 12mm ply? What screws did you end up using?

    Appreciate all you advice/help.

    Cheers.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaIN2203 View Post
    Thanks MM, I had a quick look at the Kingspan website, and will email them to clarify a few things.

    Have you attached the ply to your timber frames yet? Did you use 12mm ply? What screws did you end up using?

    Appreciate all you advice/help.

    Cheers.
    We haven't gotten to the stage of lining the framed walls yet - that is a little way off yet (it's too hot to work out there with the weather we're having lately).

    I'm planning on 18mm ply - mainly because we can source this at a good price from www.trademasterjoinery.com.au (their Okume ply is around $40 per sheet for 18mm, and it's perfect for this type of application).

    I haven't decided on the screws yet - and would love to hear thoughts on that from others - my inclination was a button head screw to hold it well against the frame, but I think that will actually detract from the look. Whilst I value function over aesthetics, I'd still like to make it look goof if I can...

  5. #19
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    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
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    When I put plywood decking down I found that my drywall screw gun was perfect for installing the countersunk deck screws so they were just a millimetre or so below the surface. None were overdriven and the few that stood proud because of a knot etc were easily turned in the rest of the way with a brace. The same should work on your walls. Any splinters/slivers when you are done are quickly sanded off. Those kind of screw guns are available in tool rental places here if you don't want to buy one. Try one on a small piece to see if it'll work for you.

    Pete

  6. #20
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    Apr 2018
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    Adelaide
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    For those that are contemplating lining their shed, I emailed Kingspan with a few questions:

    "The shed has three metal purlins (girts ?) along the sides, at the top, middle and just off the bottom. My plan was to attach some 90 x 35 timber studs flat against the purlins as battens and then attach the ply to the timber.


    What would your suggest be? Fix the Air-Cell to the metal purlins before attaching the timber battens and then ply, or timber battens and then Air-Cell and then ply over that? Also if I am installing something like the Air-Cell Insulshed 50 would I need other added insulation like Earthwool?"

    Michael responded with:

    "Thanks for your enquiry.

    For any reflective insulation to work you need an airspace adjacent to the foil.

    So what you need to ensure if that the plywood is not fixed directly against the AirCell Insulshed.

    Therefor my recommendation would be to fix the AirCell to the purlins, then fix the battens in front of the AirCell, and then fix your plywood to the batten. This detail ensure that the AirCell achieves an airspace on both side.

    For a Class 10a building (residential shed) this level of insulation should be sufficient enough."


    Cheers.

  7. #21
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    Dec 2015
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaIN2203 View Post
    "Therefor my recommendation would be to fix the AirCell to the purlins, then fix the battens in front of the AirCell, and then fix your plywood to the batten. This detail ensure that the AirCell achieves an airspace on both side."
    That's what I did with Thermalbreak 8 (foil+foam) then Tophat 64 battens w/ R2.0HD 75mm batts followed by 12mm plywood. Installing the Thermalbreak 8 was a bit of a chore though.

    If I had my time again, I'd probably opt for the shed builder to wrap the shed in sisalation externally before cladding and then just do insulation batts + ply internally. The sisalation would keep condensation out and the batts would do all the insulating. Probably 90% of the thermal performance of my completed system but with a fair bit less work.

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Hobart
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    Good Morning MAIN2203

    Coincidentally, Fine WoodWorking Magazine has just circulated some articles on woodshop design and layout to their online subscribers. Not sure if you will be able to access the following, but you may find them interesting:

    How to Make Better Use of Your Shop Space - FineWoodworking

    A Layout Kit for Small Shops - FineWoodworking

    If there is an electronic block on those sites then the articles were copied from FWW's Tools and Shops issues that they publish just before Christmas each year. Your local library may have copies of Fine WoodWorking Magazine and they are well worth a browse.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  9. #23
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    Apr 2018
    Location
    Adelaide
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    Thanks Graeme!

    Unfortunately I can’t read the articles you linked to, I can only read the first paragraph. I will try and get access to them through the library. I may even look at signing up.

    Thanks for your (and everyone’s) input, it’s very much appreciated!!

    cheers,

    Mark

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaIN2203 View Post
    .....Unfortunately I can’t read the articles you linked to, I can only read the first paragraph. I will try and get access to them through the library. I may even look at signing up......
    Hi Mark

    Another option is to buy their DVD of all back issues of Fine Woodworking Magazine - 280 magazines, computer searchable, for US$80-100 - prices vary a bit!

    I bought the DVD, and then subscribed about ten years ago.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaIN2203 View Post
    Thanks Graeme!

    Unfortunately I can’t read the articles you linked to, I can only read the first paragraph. I will try and get access to them through the library. I may even look at signing up.
    Two week free trial membership will cost you nothing

  12. #26
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    Apr 2006
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    Hobart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Man View Post
    Two week free trial membership will cost you nothing
    Even better.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    .....Another option is to buy their DVD of all back issues of Fine Woodworking Magazine - 280 magazines, computer searchable, for US$80-100 - prices vary a bit!.....
    Just received some junk mail from Fine WoodWorking Magazine - coincidentally, they are currently discounting their magazine archive DVD at US$79.96.
    Holiday 2019

  14. #28
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    Apr 2013
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    Nowra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moph View Post
    That's what I did with Thermalbreak 8 (foil+foam) then Tophat 64 battens w/ R2.0HD 75mm batts followed by 12mm plywood. Installing the Thermalbreak 8 was a bit of a chore though.

    If I had my time again, I'd probably opt for the shed builder to wrap the shed in sisalation externally before cladding and then just do insulation batts + ply internally. The sisalation would keep condensation out and the batts would do all the insulating. Probably 90% of the thermal performance of my completed system but with a fair bit less work.
    Moph, how did you achieve the air gap adjacent the Thermalbreak 8 in that setup? ie how did you separate the 75mm batts from the Thermalbreak?

  15. #29
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packdaddy View Post
    Moph, how did you achieve the air gap adjacent the Thermalbreak 8 in that setup? ie how did you separate the 75mm batts from the Thermalbreak?
    I didn't. Foil insulation is primarily designed to deal with radiant heat flow by reflecting it, so for Perth's climate I'm really only worried about reflecting outside heat that's trying to get in. It doesn't get cold enough in winter to worry about heat loss from inside to out. The 40mm air gap between the Colorbond sheets and Thermalbreak 8 should deal nicely with summer conditions.

    Having an air gap on the inside would be important were I in a cold climate where winter heating was needed though.

  16. #30
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    Nowra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moph View Post
    I didn't. Foil insulation is primarily designed to deal with radiant heat flow by reflecting it, so for Perth's climate I'm really only worried about reflecting outside heat that's trying to get in. It doesn't get cold enough in winter to worry about heat loss from inside to out. The 40mm air gap between the Colorbond sheets and Thermalbreak 8 should deal nicely with summer conditions.

    Having an air gap on the inside would be important were I in a cold climate where winter heating was needed though.
    Gotcha. So rather than the inner air gap that Kingspan are suggesting, you've got bats there. Can't be a bad thing anyway

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