Thread: The shed gets a lining

a good score to get enough to line your shed
john t.

Well I guess you could get the mate who gave it to you to come round and help with the ceiling, or cut the boards into quarters (1200x600) so that they are manageable. If I was doing it, I would pre-drill and screw, rather than nail. It's heaps easier than overhead nailing, and can be removed easily later if you want to conceal your wiring (always a good idea).

Just a thought.

Regards, Brett

BTW, if you find that the straps holding up the shelf are getting in the way, then you could replace them with 4-6 100x100 angle brackets. I haven't had any sag in mine in 8 months - my shelf is 180mm deep from memory.

You won't regret the insulation. On the west facing wall I have a foam insulation insert for the window. Makes a big difference.

Nice work rusel, as soon as my sparky is done I'm going to be insulating and lining my new shed.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Well I guess you could get the mate who gave it to you to come round and help with the ceiling, or cut the boards into quarters (1200x600) so that they are manageable. If I was doing it, I would pre-drill and screw, rather than nail. It's heaps easier than overhead nailing, and can be removed easily later if you want to conceal your wiring (always a good idea).

In lining this attic I used 600 x (up to) 2400 mm gyprock strips.

I had no help so to assist with handling and to stop the longer strips from bending and breaking I tek screwed a 2m long, 19 x 45 pine batten to the front of the strip with the 19 mm edge in contact with the strip. Once the strip is screwed into place the tek screws can be removed and the screw holes in the gyprock can easily be patched up later. The most difficult thing about this job was the angles. Another tip with lining a ceiling alone is to tek screw a batten below the joist so there is a gap a bit more than a gyprock sheet thickness between the joist and the batten - this provides a lip to hook the sheet into and the screws also help align the sheet.

hi
Bret
Thanks for the suggestions
The mate is now double busy with getting the new factory sorted and work out the door.
With the ceiling I was thinking of some sheets of polystyrene screwed to the rafters with large washers under the heads. This will leave a good air gap between the roof and insulation with some ridge ventulation should work well.All depend on price of the polystyrene ,have used it in the house to great effect.
Re the shelf just used what was lying around. Got to use up the junk before i throw it out.
Bobr
I have a old venetian blind i will mount out side the window in summer to stop the suns heat from getting in but let the light in.
Bobl
The room looks great so does the photo.
Hey did much the same thing on a 100+year old Victorian semi upstairs room many years ago. There rulers back then must not been to good as the distance between the rafter varying from 650mm to 400mm from top to bottom between the same two rafters. Much measuring was done and many night to get this done

Started the next section of wall today. will post some photos in the next few days.

Russell

Good idea, waiting for the next lot of work.

Hi Russel, funny you should mention polystyrene. That's what I used in my walls (70mm poly sheets). You can get 50mm (and less) and you can also get them with a silver foil on one side. This is what I intend to use in my ceiling (at the moment the roof is nice old rusty corr.iron, then an air gap, and timber lined with all sorts of bits and pieces in a rustic theme.

I got the poly from Foamex in Revesby, and I thought their prices were quite reasonable.

Regards, Brett

Polystyrene's a good insulator- hence why it is used in esky's/(chillibins to the kiwis) etc.

Its only drawbacks that I can think of are

1. It's susceptibility too fire

2. Its volatility in the presence of any hydrocarbons

3. In a fire situation the fumes given off very quickly and in great volume can be potentially deadly.

Lets face it, anything you can get cheap to insulate and line your shed is a great idea - & I like those yellow bats and would stick with them If i were you because the glass is fire resistant and the yellow color is a fire retardant additive.

Wood working sheds, well they are a big fire hazzard - we did eventually have quite a deal of problem getting affordable insurance on our furniture factory because it was timber framed (not concrete tilt panel like all the new ones) and because we had sawdust and flammable liquids including thinners for spray polishing and so on - so these things might be issues to consider.

A practice we ALWAYS adhered too as a matter of habit for 20 years was - last one out shuts the power off at the mains switch.

We had an evaporative/dehumidifying (Ebac) seasoning kiln for drying timber that was in its own attached shed which needed power 24/7/365 basically, so we ran a separate circuit with its own mains switch so that could be left running without the power being left on in the factory overnight.

A lot of the 3 phase contact switches for wood working machines, get a build up of fine sawdust inside them over the years and they CAN in damp (heavy dew) conditions - get that coating of fine dust wet enough for electricity to arc thru the carbon in the wood dust cellulose - enough that it first smolders - and then starts a fire - burning down your whole shed/ factory - hence why we only had power in the workshop turned on when someone was in there.

I remember I once sold about 3 tonnes of slabbed kiln dried defect free Jarrah burl too a woodwork shop / factory in Perth once and a year or two afterward I ran into the buyer and asked him what he made from the slabs and he told me he lost the lot in a fire when his factory burnt too the ground at night when no one was there!

Anyway - back too your polystyrene...

I'm a qualified master 5 skipper, and built a boat that I put thru commercial charter survey once with marine safety dept.

One of the requirements was that it had to have foam flotation inside the hull - in recreational boats its quite common and cheap to use styrene.

However, on a commercial charter vessel its specifically NOT allowed to use styrene for a few reasons - that really speaking could just as easily apply to your wood workshop - when you take the time to think it thru.

The fire risk is one, wet wires too a bilge pump under deck could ignite the foam with a simple short in the 12v electrical system..

Fire on a boat at sea is the last thing you ever want too experience (just like a fire in your workshop would be if you've invested everything you have into it AND you cant get good insurance at a reasonable price - been there n done that),.

When a boat swamps / sinks - the fuel (specially petrol) in the fuel tanks is lighter than water and will find its way out of the fuel tank vents just by floating out as water makes its way in - essentially they replace each other!

Your styrene is your flotation...that keeps the recreational swamped boat on the surface and stops it sinking too the bottom - and thus you are easier found if you stick with the boat, because its bigger than you and easier seen by aerial searchers and other boats like those with radar for example - you might be able to clamber onto the upturned hull and avoid the sharks and hypothermia even.

Ever seen what happens - when you put a thimble full of petrol into a styrene foam cup?

Yep - it melts in seconds too a sticky black goo.

So guess what - when that petrol floats out of your petrol tank thru the air vents as the water leaks into the tank - the petrol floats on top of the water around your boat making your eyes sting etc if your in the water - but WORSE - it reacts with the styrene flotation foam and in minutes turns it too sticky black goo that doesn't displace jack schitt, let alone any water and down your boat goes too the sea floor, leaving you to drift round with the petrol and sharks etc.

Whats that mean for a wood work shed?

Umm, do you spray any thinners and acrylic varnish etc around to finish your projects?

Well if any gets into your styrene insulated ceiling - you could have lovely black goo dripping out of the ceiling joints all over you and your workers and your newly polished furniture pieces you left to dry overnight!.

You just don't want any hydrocarbons mixing it with your styrene insulation coz once its black goo - it doesn't insulate anything!

In commercial boats because the authorities don't want them catching fire or sinking, well they INSIST on a special high density, (So it doesn't compress under the weight of water and displace less volume of water to allow a boat to sink) closed cell (so it doesn't soak up water and get heavier and affect a boats buoyancy), Fire Retardant (So it doesn't burn and spread fire under decks faster than an extinguisher and fire pumps can put it out) polyurethane foam.

Its the yellow crumbly type foam you sometimes see up under the seats in alluminium dinghy's - often referred too as "honeycomb/violet crumble foam".

Now this would be a GREAT insulator for your shed ceiling for all the reasons described BUT, man is it expensive - its a specialized foam and dear as all get out I think enough for a 16 ft bara punt floor was about a grand or so.

This is why I think you might be far better off with - a foil reflective sarking paper and say some more fire retardant glass insulation batts, maybe the pink batts type with greater insul properties for the radiated heat from the roof.

Sorry for the long winded response - polystyrene is readily available and cheap from packing materials etc, but if your 100% aware of the downsides with fire risks and fumes and chemical stability etc - you just wouldn't use it IMHO - its too late to do anything after it's caught fire - about all you can do then is say "Ahh bugger" and hope no one dies.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer on this otherwise good idea - hopefully others here might find this info in a search one day if they contemplate something similar, then at least they will be fully informed when they make their choice.

Can't be too safe these days!

Cheers

Used ready insulated sheets to build my shed, found a place that took the seconds from a manufacturer.

Cost me ~ £4 a sq mtr instead of ~£25 a sq mtr.

Still a WIP

Originally Posted by johnsattuk

Still a WIP

Aren't they all?

Nice work John.

Hi
FenceFurniture
Many thanks you saved my sanity, why, I could not think of the place that I got the foam I used in my house reno 3 years ago.
Rang the got a price for some 50mm foil backed foam sheet 2500x1200 for the 19 sheets that I would need come to $560.
But before I present my case to the 'one who must be obeyed' what does the gang think or know about this air cell foil wrap, would this work up on the rafters? Might be easer to put up, will get some prices tomorrow.

Timeless Timber
You have your heart in your advice, to add to your info here are some fact i found out about the foam that i was planing on using; From Expanded Polystyrene Features & Benefits | Foamex
Fire Properties

Foamex blocks and sheets are manufactured from a fire retardant raw material and are not an undue fire hazard when correctly installed. The polystyrene will burn when in contact with a flame, like other organic building materials, but will self extinguish when the fire source is removed.
Toxicity

CSIRO reports comment that when polystyrene is ignited, the toxicity of gases given off is “not greater” than that associated with burning timber. (H. Hofman & H Oettel Comparative Toxicity of Thermal Decomposition Products.)


John
I like the Shed mate. I bet it snug in there when the chill is outside


Will get some panels up tomorrow as I working in the shed doing some milling and have 20 minute between loading the mill


Russell

So you managed to secure enough sheet material from Chris's old workshop?
Looks like you're putting it to good use.
I used some of the 10/12mm chipboard on making stack toys for KinderGym.
Cheers, Crowie

Hi Russell, can't comment on cell foil, but I like the idea of the poly sheets with the foil because any roof leaks (and I have a few) will just run off to the outside. The cell foil may trap the water, even with the pitch of the roof.

That's a bloody good price for 19 sheets.

Regards, Brett

Hi
FenceFurniture
Yes i am a fan of polystyrene sheets also. I did not get to looking at the air cell sheeting today, move that to next week.

Got some more lining up today, this one was chipboard so it was painted with so slops from the paint tin pile. Don't the photos make it look uncluted there a reson for that because now I will have to now make a pile of boxes to fit under the benches to fit all the odds and sod into. At the moment there is just a great big pile in the centre of the shed

From this centre excess is a old wood lathe i rescued many years that I admit that I am not going to get around to fixing up SO who want it. Just need a good home and some TLC one photo attached.
I will post it in the market place with more photos

Russell