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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    I am leaning toward having it all done by a shed company - one throat to choke & also likely to have it finished much sooner than going the OB route.
    Absolutely the right thing to do, IMHO. A good friend of mine runs a small engineering business, and over the last 20 years I have watched him be called in to rescue various people who have attempted to build sheds themselves or by organising their own slabs etc. It rarely works - messages get lost, corners get cut and things don't quite end up square/flat/level/the_right_size or whatever. Then it inevitably turns in to a sh*t fight of who said what and who's to blame.

    He has built several sheds for me, but has now largely retired so my last shed (a 7x7 garage finished last week) was a Ranbuild, installed by a local shed company. The installation cost was about 30% of the kit price (no DA required as it's "rural"). They spec'd and arranged the slab, which incorporates brackets - another opportunity for errors with 3rd party concretors!

    One last thing. The friend I mentioned above actually MAKES sheds (or did before he retired). Everything is made in-house and then assembled at the customers site. His sheds are not cheap. Another friend of mine wanted a hay shed and went with the cheapest quote, about 15% below my other friend's price. The first and second times that it suffered wind damage he had it "repaired" by the original installers. The third time he employed the first friend to fix it, and it hasn't had a problem since. The total price of the shed is now far higher than the original "expensive" quote, and to that must be added the lost usage whilst waiting for repairs, and the damaged (very expensive) racehorse hay that was stored in the shed....... Buy a good shed, not a cheap one!

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  3. #17
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    May 2013
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    Rockhampton QLD
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    About 18 years ago we had a 9m x 7.5m three bay shed built by a firm here in town. Only one head to kick in if any problems came up with ground work and erection of shed. The two guys who built it were like looking at machines as they were doing it. Only spoke to one another during meal breaks, otherwise just kept working. Floor, shed up in two days.

    About 2 years ago a new neighbour who was building his own shed came over a couple of times to look at ours to check how things were done. He vowed and declared never to do it again.

  4. #18
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    I am in a similar boat. The erection cost is so much that I'm wondering if I can do it myself. But I can't do the roof sheeting myself so that really scuttles the whole idea. The shed contractor did mention that the height meant he had to hire equipment. I have reduced the height to 3m walls in the hope this reduces erection costs. I will get that all re-quoted.
    I could use a decent drawing.
    My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE

  5. #19
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    I have a question that some here might be able to answer, is a metal shed all that much cheaper to build than a timber framed one? The frames and trusses can be built off site if required and stood up and it is no more complicated than building a metal shed with none of the condensation and insulation problems a metal one has. Has anyone done the sums on both?
    CHRIS

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I have a question that some here might be able to answer, is a metal shed all that much cheaper to build than a timber framed one? The frames and trusses can be built off site if required and stood up and it is no more complicated than building a metal shed with none of the condensation and insulation problems a metal one has. Has anyone done the sums on both?
    Just yesterday I heard of a company teaching how to build your own timber frame barns in New Zealand and they say they will soon offer kit set barn frames (75m2 - 270m2) from their sawmill in Hawkes Bay. But the economics of it in NZ might be different than it is in Australia. Plus that's not exactly a speedy proposition.


    However with a steel shed, I still need to insulate and line it and it will never be as comfortable in this hot climate as a wooden frame shed. So I'd also like to know if the economics ever stack up.
    My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I have a question that some here might be able to answer, is a metal shed all that much cheaper to build than a timber framed one? The frames and trusses can be built off site if required and stood up and it is no more complicated than building a metal shed with none of the condensation and insulation problems a metal one has. Has anyone done the sums on both?
    I can't comment on cost, the prices of steel and timber have varied so much over the last few years that I've lost track.

    I "owner built" my house - cypress pine framing and weatherboard. I also owner built my garage/mancave/car_restoration_shed - steel posts and roof structure, with cypress pine fill-in framing, weatherboards and full lining. I love both those buildings and am very happy with them....

    However.......

    All my "sheds" are 100% steel. I'll admit that as a farmer my requirements might be different, but steel is fireproof (within reason, I have photos of my farm's old hayshed after a massive hay fire!), and termite proof. I spent several not_so_enjoyable weeks pulling what was left of the timber framing out of a shed and replacing it piece by piece with steel purlins. I have bulldozed several sheds that looked great, until you realised that the "timber" was a paper thin veneer over termite mud, and I have dodged pieces of flying tin roof when the wind ripped the nails out of the rotten timber rafters underneath. Now I'll admit that modern treated timber is probably more resilient than the ironbark (or whatever) used to build those sheds, and some of those sheds were >50 years old, but for me it's steel all the way. For my house I'm happy to spend the required time on maintenance, checking and general "pampering". But sheds I want to simply build and use.

  8. #22
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    I owner built my Oregon framed shed in the days before steel sheds were a thing and pre fabbed frames were available and it was not that hard. I can see that in certain areas of the country steel beats termites hands down but we don't have that problem here. I am just curious why everyone automatically gets a steel shed with some of the issues they present when in use and do they cost that much more. For agricultural use yes every time to steel of course but for the hobbyist putting a shed into the backyard I am not convinced the end result is such a good thing.
    CHRIS

  9. #23
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    I'm planning on having a large shed for my hobbies this year. My first preoccupation is trying to get it as large as possible. My second preoccupation is how hot and uncomfortable it will be in summer and how to mitigate this. I forgot about the termite issue I must admit. That was because I expect to build a timber frame and wooden lining inside the steel shell anyway. Of course a ruined lining is not the same as a ruined frame.
    My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE

  10. #24
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    I think it very much depends on the particular situation. I'm not convinced about the reported condensation issues. My unlined sheds have drip lines under the purlins, but that's because the roofing iron is in direct contact between the warm/wet air in the shed and the cold air outside. When I lined my "mancave" I used the bubblewrap/foil insulation between the purlins and roofing iron, then batts, then plasterboard, so there is little air movement and much reduced conduction of heat, and I've never had any hint of condensation. I also made sure that there was no direct connection between the outside surfaces and the lining - the inside surfaces are all on timber frames or furring channel.

    Equally the degree of heat inside the building is likely much more related to the colour of the exterior (why do they use black corrugated iron?) and the insulation than the materials. Also, and this is important, unshaded windows are a massive source of heat, as are uninsulated garage doors, especially if exposed to the sun*.

    A well designed shed, with a verandah to shade the windows, south facing doors (assuming a hot sunny climate), and clad in a light colour, will likely perform equally well no matter what material it is made from.

    Design, I suspect, is far more important than material!

    *Note. Yes, I speak from experience. My "mancave" originally had exposed north facing roller doors at one end (the car restoration end). Big mistake. You could feel the heat radiating off the doors from halfway down the building. I built a verandah/eave that sticks out maybe 2m from the doors, shading them from the sun, and the problem went away.

  11. #25
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    My Brother in Law built a big ag shed for his workshop because he wanted good head height for car hoists and the first thing he complained about was condensation. I suspect it is a climate thing linked to where in the country the shed is and some active ventilation would fix the problem.
    CHRIS

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    My Brother in Law built a big ag shed for his workshop because he wanted good head height for car hoists and the first thing he complained about was condensation. I suspect it is a climate thing linked to where in the country the shed is and some active ventilation would fix the problem.
    Pull the cladding back off, and place this stuff in between your purlins and the outside colourbond: AIR-CELL Insulshed 50 | Shed Insulation | Kingspan | Australia

    Do this on walls and ceiling, and it ought to solve the problem (please do check with the manufacturer on the climate zone, as there may be a more appropriate product version depending on your location).

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    My Brother in Law built a big ag shed for his workshop because he wanted good head height for car hoists and the first thing he complained about was condensation. I suspect it is a climate thing linked to where in the country the shed is and some active ventilation would fix the problem.
    I would guess this is an unlined, possibly dirt floored shed? This is the same problem I was talking about - a metal surface (corrugated iron) directly exposed to cold air on one side and warm/wet air on the other. This will always result in condensation on the roofing iron because the warm/wet air cools, water condenses, then the now cooler air falls and is replaced with new warm/wet air and the cycle repeats. My previous property had wooden framed sheds, and the same thing happened. The only difference is that _some_ of the condensation soaks in to the wood rather than dripping straight off - not necessarily a good thing - and it still drips. Another massively important point to note is that if the shed has a concrete floor and doors, the moisture level inside is far reduced and this problem is much less. My main farm workshop has sliding doors and concrete floor, no lining or insulation and no condensation issues whatsoever (I'd notice if the cast iron tops on my machines got drips on them!). My hayshed (same construction, same location) has a dirt floor and an open south side, and you can see driplines on the floor beneath every purlin. The floor inside the shed is warm, and if it's dirt it just releases moisture which condenses on the roof! We actually tested this some time ago in a hayshed with doors but no concrete floor (dirt floor), and simply covering the dirt floor with black builders plastic largely stopped the problem. That shed now has a floor of conveyor belt (the plastic wasn't very tough!).


    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Man View Post
    Pull the cladding back off, and place this stuff in between your purlins and the outside colourbond: AIR-CELL Insulshed 50 | Shed Insulation | Kingspan | Australia

    Do this on walls and ceiling, and it ought to solve the problem (please do check with the manufacturer on the climate zone, as there may be a more appropriate product version depending on your location).
    This is exactly the "bubblewrap/foil" I mentioned previously (I couldn't recall the name!). It works very well, though is not a total replacement for batts (it used to be marketed as such) because it relies on its shiny silver surface for a portion of its insulation value, and that ceases to function as it gets dirty (dust blows up the corrugations and covers the insulation!). In my "mancave" I used Air-Cell between the iron and the purlins, then 2" high performance foam board insulation. Worked a treat!

    One other note regarding design. Windows exposed to the sun are a nightmare, as I said earlier, they let in a massive amount of heat. Unfortunately a well insulated (not air conditioned) shed will still warm up through the day, and that insulation will keep it warm overnight so gradually through the summer it gets hotter and hotter. The best way to control this is "active management", by which I mean opening all the doors and windows when it's cool at night or first thing in the morning, and closing them as it starts to warm up through the day. But this means you do need those windows! So build the shed with shaded windows (either on the south walls or with very wide eaves/verandah) and a through draft. DON'T contemplate an evaporative air conditioner ("swampy") because the high humidity will rust your tools!

  14. #28
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    Regarding condensation and blaming it on steel framed sheds;

    Part of survival training is acquiring water, and they used to teach that you dig a shallow hole, put a cup in the centre, then cover the hole with plastic sheet (bin liner etc.) with a stone in the middle. Overnight, moisture evaporates from the ground, condenses on the plastic, runs to the centre (where the stone has created a low point) and then drips in to the cup.

    This is exactly why a dirt floored shed suffers from condensation - the problem is the unsealed floor, not the material of the frame!

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I owner built my Oregon framed shed in the days before steel sheds were a thing and pre fabbed frames were available and it was not that hard. I can see that in certain areas of the country steel beats termites hands down but we don't have that problem here. I am just curious why everyone automatically gets a steel shed with some of the issues they present when in use and do they cost that much more. For agricultural use yes every time to steel of course but for the hobbyist putting a shed into the backyard I am not convinced the end result is such a good thing.
    I agree with you Chris, for the most part the steel sheds are false economy if you are doing extensive fit outs and linings like most do with sheds here. By building internal stud walls and lining them you are effectively doubling up on your support structure not to mention the amount of wasted floor space from your finished wall thickness
    Conventional timber frame and metal clad is going to be a better route for a standard sized shed.
    The steel ones really come into their own when you have high walls and big clear spans and you are not intending on lining them,

    Steel is more expensive than conventional timber frame which is why the project home builders don’t use it .

  16. #30
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    Local to me, C100 purlins are around $8/m, 100x50 sawn cypress is $7/m. Looking at my farm workshop, the horizontal purlins in the wall are at 1.3m spacings so assuming the same construction between timber and steel, an 8m length of wall comprising 4 runs (top, bottom and two between) would use 32m of material, costing $32 more in steel. However, from experience this cost pales in comparison with the cost of the cladding, insulation and lining, which would be the same for both. It is also worth bearing in mind that "normal" stud wall construction uses much narrower spacings of timber, so uses more material. If the walls are traditional timber framing with the lining directly attached, they will use vastly more material than wide spacings (timber or steel) with furring channels. However for a workshop, the narrower spacings and vertical studs give more opportunity to hang things later!

    Edit: It seems to me that.....

    The main reason that many up market project home companies use timber is simply that steel is seen as a "shed", and when constructing more complex (i.e. aesthetically pleasing) houses it is often easier to use timber. There are a great many companies, both project home suppliers and mainstream builders, who are now using steel framed construction.

    The main reason that most (all?) shed companies use steel is because they can phone up Ranbuild (or equivalent) and have a kit delivered with pre-punched holes, no warping, twisting, shrinkage etc,. and assemble it with two spanners and a tekscrew gun. And no training in carpentry........

    Having said all of that, if I were building a small shed and I had no recourse to outside help (with specialist knowledge and equipment) I would build it in timber, simply because I have the tools to do that and feel comfortable with a drop saw and nail gun! My actual choice would come down to my requirements, which is why my mancave is steel roof with cypress wall in-fills and weatherboards to match my house (because I can!).

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