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Thread: Tassie 6x5 shed build
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17th April 2021, 08:55 PM #46Member
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I first posted in Feb 2016 and haven't finished yet. You'll never catch me
Have shiplap lined two of the ceiling bays since I last posted in February 2020. Plus used the shed as a shed, of course - not having finished doesn't stop it being used for projects.
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17th April 2021 08:55 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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17th April 2021, 09:21 PM #47Intermediate Member
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I'm about to start lining the shed. As said, the sparky is here on Tuesday so I need to finalise some electrical/lighting issues. I'm thinking of installing led downlights instead of using the 8 freebie double fluro troffers I snavelled from work. I've seen LED downlights at only $10 each at Bunnings. I figure I'll need 12 (maybe 16?) for 30m2. i.e. about 12,000 (16,000) lumens. Since I've decide to ply the ceiling and this is becoming more of a man cave than a shed I figure that this will be neater. Thoughts? Hopefully will look a bit like this (well maybe not quite that flash).
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18th April 2021, 12:07 AM #48SENIOR MEMBER
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Most downlights give quite a narrow cone of light. Ideally for shed work you want lots of light from multiple directions and supplemental task specific lighting where needed.
I don't think I would go for normal household downlights in a shed. But my shed is a shed used for woodwork and metalwork.
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18th April 2021, 12:37 AM #49Member
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Agree. No matter their spread, downlights are concentrated point sources and cast harsh shadows. If you have lots of them then it does minimise the effect a bit as you don't have much shadow and the contrast at shadow edges is minimised, but I'd still go for distributed light sources (troffers or panels) as primary lighting regardless.
I have 9 troffers with 2x28W T5 fluoros each in my 40sqm shed (500W total) and wouldn't want any less for general lighting. I'll definitely be adding task lighting above the workbenches and machining areas - probably incandescent or halogen to avoid the stroboscopic effect that 50Hz flicker can cause. LED fluoros would have been fine in those troffers, just I picked them up cheap.
I don't run the lighting long enough to worry about power use. Even if I end up with double my current draw once all the task lighting is in, that'll be 26c/h to run.
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18th April 2021, 01:30 AM #50
I'm fitting out a space that's around 6.5m x 6.5m - I calculate it to be about 42 square metres.
I bought one of these in a "4 foot" (1200mm) version: Philips LED Batten Light - Tri Colour & Dual Power to test them. Whilst the light itself is awesome, nice and bright etc - I found in a woodworking environment, the fact that it's not a high IP rating allows dust or small bugs/insects to get inside, and they're awfully hard to get out again due to the design of the assembly.
I was looking to install 24 of these in the space, with a switching array to turn them on in banks of 4 lights at a time, so as to keep the lighting where it's needed. By my calculations, that would output around 2,285 lumens per square metre at the source (24 lights x 4,000 lumens = 96,000 lumens / 42 square metres = 2,285 lumens per square metre).
In further testing, using the single unit I purchased, and given that it's a 4000 lumens unit, I measured 500 lux under that light at night at benchtop level.
Unless I am interpreting things the wrong way, that seems to indicate to me that about 1/4 of the available light will actually hit the workbench surface (2,285 lumens per square metre being output, and 500 actually measured at workbench height).
Given that I had found issues with the unit I selected, I have since researched, and found this equivalent (in terms of lumens, and colour variability) unit with a higher IP rating: Outdoor LED Batten with Tri Colour & Dual Power Switch
Whilst I have not tested these, and whilst I like the design less, I feel it will be a better solution.
As these are effectively the same lights, I am still planning on 24 of these.
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18th April 2021, 12:15 PM #51GOLD MEMBER
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When I did my shop I went for 1000 lumens per square metre. It is the recommended light level for detailed bench work. I put up 16 battens of 4,000 lumens each, 6,000K colour temp.
Pete
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18th April 2021, 01:36 PM #52
When you say 1000 lumens per square metre, Pete, is that based on the rated output as per their packaging/data sheets or is it actually measured illumination at bench height?
Also how do you find your colour temperature choice? My shed has a hodgepodge. But I prefer "warm white" (c.3000K) and have gone for that in our house. "Cool white" is generally rated around 4000K but SWMBO says it is too clinical for the house. On that scale your choice of 6000K must be "frigid clinical white".
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18th April 2021, 02:29 PM #53GOLD MEMBER
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Graeame
It is the output from their specs and I just downloaded a free (not a lot of features) light meter app for my iPhone. It read just under 1,000 lux off a white sheet of paper at bench height. From researching at the time I came across a woodworking article (fluorescent light days) that said for woodworking one wants 100 foot candles per square foot at the bench. That converts to 100 lux per square foot which is roughly 1,000 lux per square meter. To get that 1,000 lumens needed from the light. My shop is roughly 640 square feet/60 square metres so that worked out to 64,000 lumens for the shop from 16 of, 4,000 lumen fixtures. The ceiling averages about 3 metres high. Right now the OSB walls and ceiling are unpainted and it is bright enough, too bright for the wife with younger eyes. She prefers half turned off. Painted white the reflected light will make it brighter. They had a few options from about 3,000K to the 6,000K I picked. 6,000K is close to mid day light levels being pretty much white light. 3,000K is much closer to early evening light having more red in it. Hence the warmer tone. The LEDs are more "pure" than the fluorescents so not as blue even with the higher Kelvins. The only time I notice it is a bit blue is at night when the light is shining on the snow outside compared to the warmer lights of the house which look more yellow. I like the light as the colours are closer to outside daylight making it a little easier to colour match for me. A little colour blind in the red/green range. I suggest getting as much light as you can while building as you can always turn a few off if you want. The lights came direct from China through Alibaba and 4 guys from the clubs have bought some for themselves after seeing mine.
Pete
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18th April 2021, 04:35 PM #54
Graeme, if you take a look at this page: Color temperature - Wikipedia there is a chart near the top to the right that shows the Kelvin temperature of white light and the equivalent.
A brief summary:
3000k is considered "Warm White" - I equate this to the old incandescent bulbs most of us would be used to. Nice for inside, perhaps not so good for working (any finishes or wood under this light will seem more honeyed in colour - that might work well if you're eventually aiming to put the piece in that kind of light).
5000k is considered "Cool White" - this is most equal to neon tubes and similar fluorescent lighting.
6500k is considered "Daylight" - this is effectively the light you get outside on a sunny day.
For what it's worth, each of the lights I linked to can be internally switched to (roughly) either of these temperatures, so, if one wanted to have daylight (6500k) lighting normally, but then the ability to view a piece under Warm White lighting, these battens can be switched to that temperature for a time to allow that to happen.
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18th April 2021, 04:40 PM #55.
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I also wouldn't use spots for general lighting
You can't say you have 2285 lumens per square meter unless you actually have all 24 lights actually running. All you have is 4000 lumens output generating 500 lumens per square meter (lux) at the bench. This is pretty normal.
Illuminance (lumens per square meter or lux) on the bench depends very much on the shape of the light fitting, and the distance from the light. Secondary factors like obstructions, reflectivity of the surrounds and, the proximity of other lights are also be very important.
I have about half your total average theoretical illuminance (ie about 1100 lux ) but my bench top illuminances varies from 260 to 1370 lux because my lighting is (deliberately) not evenly distributed and I have significant obstructions in the ceiling. The best illuminance I have is above my MW lathe which has about 8000 lumens output directly OH, and is 1370 lux on the bench. Above my MW lathe I have 6000 lumens but due to significant obstructions only have 640 lux at the bench. Bear in mind these measurements are take with all the other general lights on in my shed
I've found the only way to get good lighting in small areas is to use spots close to the action. I get 17,000 lux at the front of the TS blade using a spot inside the TS OH guard. 2400 lux on my mill work table and 2500 lux on my DP table. I have 4 x 2500 lumen spots (10,000 lumens total) above my electronics work bench generating ~1400 lux on the bench.
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18th April 2021, 04:41 PM #56GOLD MEMBER
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I find it mildly sacrilegious that you’ve left a shed completely empty for 12 months while you decide what to do with it.
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18th April 2021, 08:28 PM #57Intermediate Member
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I was was worried that once it started filling it up with stuff it would be too hard to empty it to do a proper job. At least that's what I've heard happens. I'll bet there's a few of you out there that have had that happen
OK....so back to lighting. I'm going back to the simple and cost efficient plan. I'll use my 8 freebie troffers. Each one is 2x36W, so 8x2x3350 lumens = 53600 lumens. This should be plenty in a 30m2 shed. I'll use led spot lighting if i need it. I checked my double garage (36m2) and it only has 4 double troffers, so about 26,800 lumens...I'd call it sufficient for its purpose (i.e. alighting from a car).
It's increasingly looking like the shed will not be a place for wood work and metal work but will be primarily my brewcave, for storage and a place for my 13 YO son to hang out. I've decided to build another small shed (3mx3m) for garden storage.
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19th April 2021, 11:23 AM #58
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19th April 2021, 06:45 PM #59
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19th April 2021, 07:21 PM #60Intermediate Member
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Good to hear that someone else is probably getting laughed at like me. When friends come around and seem my empty shed and a garage stuffed with way too much stuff they can't believe it. I think part of it is my perfectionism. I'm trying to to learn that the phrase "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (enough)" is one that I need to pay more heed.
Electrician here tomorrow for first fix...woo hoo. That will be a big leap forward.
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