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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    NSW
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    25

    Post Temporary division of shed - Dust Proof

    Hey everyone.

    In the coming months I am going to be moving to my girlfriend parents property near Peats Ridge. They happen to have an amazing 12m x 12m shed that is currently only used for general storage and other odds and ends. They have agreed to allow me to take over a portion for wood working, the exact amount of space I can utilise is not finalised. I shall be their resident grounds keeper slash handy man in exchange.

    There are a number of issues however, mainly pertaining to dust generation from wood working. I plan on purchasing a 3HP dust collector and building an exterior lean to to house it. But still think dividing the shed in some way will be critical to dust not spoiling their stored goods, as well as the solar inverters located in the shed which I am unable to check at this time whether are dust proof models.

    I have attached the floor plan of the shed with some key features drawn in. I have been thinking it would be easiest to divide the shed between the roller doors and take a approx 4m x 12m slice of the shed (though they may consider this too much space taken, here's to hoping).The shed is approximately 5m heigh at its peak, so building a simple framed wall to divide the space isn't super simple. I think the best option would be to build an internal room with its 'roof' acting as a mezzanine which would allow lots of storage for her parents which could be valuable ammunition for space negotiations. However this would be a considerable investment in a space I may only live at for a year, as well as being a broke uni student with limited cash flow. I am fine spending money on ducting etc which I can pack up and reuse. But wondered if anyone had any ideas for some less permanent/expensive ideas on how to break up the space. I have considered using some thick builders plastic sheeting taped together as well, but not sure whether this would do little to stop the spread of dust.

    Thanks,
    Tom

    ShedProp.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
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    25

    Default

    Ps: also not sure if they would want something as significant/permanent as a built in room in the space.


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  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Coffs Coast
    Posts
    103

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    Tom,

    I separated a shed once by hanging old sails from the roof to floor. This worked really well. The sails were free from throw outs. My side was dusty but the other had minimal dust. Seems that limiting airflow works really well to stop dust moving into the other space.

    For your situation I’d be building a stud wall (light scantlings) and the staple builders plastic to it. For cost reduction you might choose not to take up the full 12m of length for the wall?

    If there’s no wind in the shed then hanging the plastic from the roof (a rope or taught fencing wire at the top hung from the roof in a few places) and weighting it down at floor level with sticks of scrap wood would also work.

    Adding in a fan blowing your air outwards, through a wall or door would also create negative pressure in your space limiting dust spread to their space. You’d need to pull air through your space from one end to the other if possible (a fan blowing out an open door doesn’t work. It needs have less options for air to shortcut around the fan)

    However, you’ll need to deal with the heat problems the lack of mass air flow makes for you too. A really big fan at the workspace would assist you not flaking out in summer!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,282

    Default

    I spent some 35 years testing and building dust free laboratories as part of my former day job and just wanted to say this is not as easy as it seems. We spent a lot of time modelling and implementing positive and negative pressure spaces in these labs and found it was quite counter intuitive.
    A few comments;
    We found curtains or any loose structures to be ineffective against fine dust. If air can move easily between the spaces the dust will also move.
    A DC located outside the workshop.shed should act as an effective negative pressure generator for a workspace while the DC is running.
    A fan creating a negative pressure inside the workshop is a good idea to exhaust dust and help cool the inside of the workshop area but it will have to be powerful enough and run for some time after last use so put it on a timer.
    As well as a fan to produce a negative pressure in the workshop area, another fan to produce a positive pressure in the rest of the shed might be worth considering.
    NB: for the fan and DC to get dust out you will need to let air into the workshop. The air should come from the outside.
    Light breezes blowing past a structure can create enough pressure differentials in different parts of a building to defeat small fans so a near hermitic seal around the workshop would be needed to keep the dust from creeping from the workshop to the rest of the shed. I would imaging lots of sealer being used.
    Changes in atmospheric pressure are impossible to guard against unless a Bathyscape like structure is used. This means there must always be a unrestricted connection of the workshop to outside air or it will push air into the shed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Perth WA Australia
    Posts
    511

    Default

    haven't ever used one of these but they might do the trick if you tape all the seams.

    ZipWall Dust Barrier System

    Suppose it all depends on what your definition (read GF's families definition) of what you're willing to tolerate. As BobL says its alot more complicated than what it seems, as fine dust is like water if there's an opening it'll find its way through it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
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    25

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    Thanks for those suggestions, may I ask what 'light scantlings' means? from my knowledge just dimensionally small lumber. I have been reading lots in the dust extraction section so have learned the value in 'controlling' air pressure to manage dust control. The summer heat is defiantly going to be an issue! There were quite a few 40+ days out there last Christmas. Insulating the shed would be on the agenda if I took over the shed for the long term!

    Also cool to see a member from the Coffs Coast, I grew up / currently live 30 minutes south of Coffs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    25

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    Thanks for the reply, I have been reading the dust extraction section extensively and dust control defiantly is a lot more complex issue than I had previously understood.
    I am planning based on your many super informative posts regarding dust extraction systems (thanks so much for your time and energy in providing information to everyone),
    to purchase a 3hp dust extractor, run 6" ducting to all machines (when I plan the run out properly will send you a sketch if thats ok); whose dust ports will be expanded to suit. As well as making bell mouths where required. The dust extractor will be placed outside the shed.

    The issue with cross flow ventilation is the shed does not have any windows currently, and don't think I will be able to start cutting lots of windows in. Thats why I need the workshop to start at the roller, so I can get natural light as well as an air source. Would placing a fan on a timer on the back wall opposite the roller doors, in conjunction with working with the roller doors open be enough for proper cross ventilation?

    It seems like total control of dust is not really obtainable in this situation. But I think if I can get most of the dangerous fine dust out with an efficient/effective dust extraction system so that the shed side won't become blanketed with it, or the larger less dangerous but 'dirty' dust it should be ok. One main concern is my GF's father has asthma and is quite effected by air borne particles, such as those generated by bush fires. So can't have the visits to the shed resulting in any irritation to him.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Coffs Coast
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toomnus View Post
    Thanks for those suggestions, may I ask what 'light scantlings' means? from my knowledge just dimensionally small lumber. I have been reading lots in the dust extraction section so have learned the value in 'controlling' air pressure to manage dust control. The summer heat is defiantly going to be an issue! There were quite a few 40+ days out there last Christmas. Insulating the shed would be on the agenda if I took over the shed for the long term!

    Also cool to see a member from the Coffs Coast, I grew up / currently live 30 minutes south of Coffs.
    Tom,

    Light scantlings means smaller sticks. So for a stud wall just to hold plastic and nothing else is use studs at 1.2m and just a top and bottom plate with 1 row of noggings.

    But, as BobL says - lots and lots of stuffing to stop leaks of air. Then you need to rely on great ppe and dust hygiene processes to deal with the health implications your situation creates.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    37

    Default

    +1 for ZipWall or similar.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    lower eyre peninsular
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,170

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    7 months ago I build a timber frame wall, *m long x 3.5M high at pitch, it was made from 30x70 pine and covered in 3mm MDF sheets. I have since been creating dust in my side with ducted 150mm pipe to most places.
    Still use sanders and hand held routers without any collection.
    there is no dust on their side much to their amazement.

    It could (god forbid) all be dismantled within 4 hours max.
    Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyz View Post
    7 months ago I build a timber frame wall, *m long x 3.5M high at pitch, it was made from 30x70 pine and covered in 3mm MDF sheets. I have since been creating dust in my side with ducted 150mm pipe to most places.
    Still use sanders and hand held routers without any collection.
    there is no dust on their side much to their amazement.

    It could (god forbid) all be dismantled within 4 hours max.
    Hey Tonyz,

    Thanks for that insight, I really like the idea of 3mm mdf sheets; quite cheap and a lot nicer than a wall of plastic.
    What distance did you place the centres for the framing?
    Thanks

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    lower eyre peninsular
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toomnus View Post
    Hey Tonyz,

    Thanks for that insight, I really like the idea of 3mm mdf sheets; quite cheap and a lot nicer than a wall of plastic.
    What distance did you place the centres for the framing?
    Thanks
    I think it was std spacing, but as Iam currently in New Zealand still its a little hard to check. It doesnt look pretty, but cupboards, shelving and stuff in front covers a lot of faults. If you go this way slap some white paint on first, brightens the place up ....I learnt the hard way.

    really jealous of your position with girlfriend sounds a sweet life and job
    Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    25

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    Well have a good time in Nz mate! Yeah I can’t wait to move in and get the shed setup. They have 100 acres of bush so think I am going to get need to get a mill of some sort too!


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  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW
    Posts
    2,956

    Default

    Is it possible to set up so that every time you use a dust-creating machine you wheel it outside and close the door behind you.

    Perhaps you could also have a little outside bench for using ROS’s etc.

    So the only things done inside the shed are clean and you don’t need to partition the space or wear out your welcome.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    25

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    Hey Arron,

    Thanks for the thoughts, the issue is the door open into a partially enclosed gravel car port. So wheeling out the heavy machinery wouldn’t be easy. But I am planning on a workbench on wheels that would easily go over gravel for handheld dust intensive tasks such as sanding.


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