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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    12

    Lightbulb New workshop ideas

    Hi All,

    I have a 4.5x3.0m colorbond shed on a concrete slab, I hate it, I'm ripping it out and reusing the slab.

    New shed will be timber, soundproofing/insulation in the walls. I'm thinking a raised wooden floor and a skillion roof (I was thinking that the slope would be the 4.5m length of the shed so something like 3x3m at the high side of the shed and 3x2.2m at the low side, the reasoning being that it would give me quite a bit of storage at the high side and for heating the nearby pool if I wanted to stick a evacuated tube solar panel or two on the roof it would be orientated towards the sun).

    Would 90 x 45mm timber be overkill for the shed frame?

    I want to use my CNC & 3DP in there, and so I want a clean area for me and a computer, I'm going to have a tiny little office 0.8x3m, with a cavity door into the main area, probably have the door to the outside coming in here (one problem with this is how I would get something like a lathe into the shed, I was thinking I could make part of the dividing wall removable?)

    I'm going to have a bench hung on one of the long walls, basically 3.5m long, with a table saw and router integrated, so I want to have a sort of removable wall panel (maybe 30cm high) starting at the bench height so I can rip long pieces of timber, I'm looking for advice on the best way to do this, should it be like a hinged cat flap, basically I need it to be secure and easy to use without letting beasties or the weather in?

    Also I want to install a 3m steel I-beam to attach a winch to, how would you beef up the framing in the walls to support that?

    That's about it for now.

    Thanks in advance.

    Richard

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rthorntn View Post
    Would 90 x 45mm timber be overkill for the shed frame?
    Not overkill - sounds about right.

    I want to use my CNC & 3DP in there, and so I want a clean area for me and a computer, I'm going to have a tiny little office 0.8x3m, with a cavity door into the main area, probably have the door to the outside coming in here (one problem with this is how I would get something like a lathe into the shed, I was thinking I could make part of the dividing wall removable?)
    I wouldn't be using a 3D printer in the same room as a CNC, Maybe make the computer are big enough to also hold the 3D printer?

    I'm going to have a bench hung on one of the long walls, basically 3.5m long, with a table saw and router integrated, so I want to have a sort of removable wall panel (maybe 30cm high) starting at the bench height so I can rip long pieces of timber, I'm looking for advice on the best way to do this, should it be like a hinged cat flap, basically I need it to be secure and easy to use without letting beasties or the weather in?
    Hanging a bench omg a wall means that's final resting place it cannot be moved - I would use a stand alone bench on wheels that could be move in and out a bit from the wall if needed.

    Also I want to install a 3m steel I-beam to attach a winch to, how would you beef up the framing in the walls to support that?
    What's it for and what sorts of max weights are you thinking of?

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Hunter Valley
    Age
    51
    Posts
    804

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    Quote Originally Posted by rthorntn View Post
    I'm going to have a tiny little office 0.8x3m
    I would give this careful consideration - unless you're super thin or small, you'll struggle to sit in, pull up and work on a chair at a desk in that narrow of a space.

    Suggest you get a spare sheet of something (Melamine, Plywood, Chipboard), and have someone hold it 80cm away from a wall, to give you a clear picture of how much space this actually is.

    IMO only, but I think it will be awfully claustrophobic.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    12

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    Thanks BobL!

    Amazing idea on the 3DP, it's a Guider II and pretty bulky but I reckon I could put a deep shelf above the computer.

    Oh, you think for me fixed benches are a bad idea, I was doing it to have a nice wide flat bench top, my rationale on the cat flap is the size of the shed is going to make it impossible to rip a 3m+ sleeper and so I thought rip it to outside...

    Max weight for the winch would be 250kg.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    29

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    Typically you wouldnt support steel with timber but in this case, given the steel isnt structural (in terms of the building structure) you should be OK as long as you take loads into consideration.

    The smallest Universal Beam (UB) you can buy is a 150UB14 which weights 14kg/m. So over 3m thats not a lot of weight. Four nail laminated 90x45's should have no trouble supporting this but now we get into what you intend to lift?

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    Thanks everyone.

    3DP in the office is a great idea.

    I figured if I wanted to rip a 3m sleeper the only way I could do that was with an opening to the outside, I liked the idea of wall mounting benches to save space.

    Maybe I will build a bench for the office, so I can just step over it and store it under the desk.

    Four nail laminated 90x45's, is that two joined 90x90 at either end of the beam, I was thinking an I beam because you can easily move the winch forward and backward, I wouldn't be lifting anything over 250kg.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
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    Situate your door into the shop so you can roll the table saw up to it and rip the long stuff through it. Better a wide door so you can also roll the saw outside onto a porch or patio.

    Pete

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Woodstock (Cowra)
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    70
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    Don't use a cavity sliding door, leaks dust like a sieve. Hung door with with self closing draught/dust flap at the bottom, self adhesive rubber seals (not foam) to edge of jamb rebate on lock style and head and on hinge edge of the DOOR not the jamb.
    Framing wise, nail laminated as suggested for the load bearing studs under the steal beam, all other studs either 90 x 35 @ 450 centres or 90 x 45 @ 600 centres. Window studs up to 2400 wide 2 x 90 x 45 nail laminated with the one closest to window cut to underside of head, over 2400 wide 3 nail laminated studs each side
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
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    Thanks again. No cavity door, top advice.

    Is there somewhere online you can recommend where I can order the nail laminated (I hadn't heard of this before) studs to be delivered to me in Sydney (as well as the other 90 x 45mm studs)?

    Any gotchas on the nail laminated, does an air framing nail gun have any issues penetrating it?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    1,016

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    Quote Originally Posted by rthorntn View Post
    Thanks again. No cavity door, top advice.

    Is there somewhere online you can recommend where I can order the nail laminated (I hadn't heard of this before) studs to be delivered to me in Sydney (as well as the other 90 x 45mm studs)?

    Any gotchas on the nail laminated, does an air framing nail gun have any issues penetrating it?

    I'm no carpenter, but I would guess that nail-laminated simply means you nail two studs together - yourself. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong and there is some sort of specific "nail laminated" timber available off the shelf.

    Cheers,

    Dom

  12. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    DomAu is correct, you nail then together yourself. The accepted criteria is 2 nails every 200mm slightly skewed in opposite direction (think dovetail) to each other ie about 10degrees off perpendicular, this increases the holding power of the nails especially in softwoods.
    A word of caution, if you use any form of treated timber use galvanised nails as the treatment especially CCA treatment eats away the nail unless its galvanised
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
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    rthorntn I donít want to put a damper on your enthusiasm or desire to build your shed but think you should get someone to advise and help you in the flesh. It is very easy to make a mistake putting it up out of a lack of some knowledge that might make it fail later. The laminated lumber kind of illustrates my point. Normally not a problem if you over fasten it with more nails than minimum code requires. Same goes for adding construction adhesive. But use too few nails or too short and you can end up with a problem. Is there anyone you know like a friend, family member, or coworker that has some construction knowledge that can help you? Maybe a forum member lives nearby that can drop by and go over the details with you.

    I framed houses when I got out of high school for 6 months so I have some basic knowledge of framing but for the decks Iím building on my house I paid an architect to draw up the plans. I knew it would make getting the building permit easier. It also let me drop the plans off at three of the local lumber yards to get an estimate of the material costs. I selected one outfit and went back over the list with the estimator to make a couple changes and upgrade a few things like construction adhesive and thicker plywood etc. Paid up front and two days later the truck, with the attached construction forklift, arrived and he placed the strapped materials exactly where I needed. Even took the plywood and ran it around to the garage so I could stack it inside until ready for it. Iím getting vinyl deck coatings for the two upper areas and donít want it to get wet.

    So why tell you about the decks? To show that unlike many things online ordering of lumber isnít a good idea yet unless you really know what you are doing. Check into your lumber yards and building centers to see if they offer material takeoffs from plans and possibly design services.

    Pete

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Australia
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    I don't think anyone has mentioned but in my area a shed that size requires building permits and depending on the location planning as well.

    Even if the current shed was ok under the rules when it was built, the rules may have changed.

    If it's just the inside you don't like, could you build 'inside' the existing shed?




    Russ

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sydney
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    Thanks all, I had previously googled "laminated timber" and found plenty of "engineered" products you could buy, I was aware that you joined multiple 90 x 45mm for strength but I wasn't aware that it had a name that doesn't make much sense to me, haha why is it called laminated, I thought that is when you put paper inside plastic and heat it up, so I was picturing timber covered in plastic. Laminated just means layers, I get it now. My mate is a carpenter and he will be giving me a hand, I'm just doing research here as he's traveling for the next 5 weeks.

    I'm in NSW, I'm pretty sure the LEP allows up to 20sqm and no higher than 3m above the ground level, I have a town planner that helps me with this stuff.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    When you have the plans in hand you could have the frames and roof trusses made and then delivered.
    CHRIS

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