Thread: Workshop Layout Any Ideas Suggestions

Originally Posted by BobL

I have never seen any second hand ones because they are not that common compared to 3 phase plugs.

I found them easy on eBay - 20 amp plugs | eBay

The electrician says the sparkies pull them out of old buildings and they sell them online cheaply as above. The above seem to come from server farms.

I will do no electrical work, my mate will do all the installation, I just need to buy the plugs. He will supply all the rest.

I need TWO Clipsal 56CSC320 Cord Extension Socket, 3 Round Pin, 250V, 20A, Electric Orange cost $110 each
I need THREE Clipsal 56P320 IP66 20 Amp 250V (second hand $25 each) for each machine and then one Clipsal 56P320 IP66 20amp for the extension cord

QUESTION

The machines will comes with a cable but no plug - I can buy the plugs with existing cable see photo below. Can you get "something" to join two section of cable together "SAFELY & CORRECTLY"?



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Originally Posted by thumbsucker

The machines will comes with a cable but no plug - I can buy the plugs with existing cable see photo below. Can you get "something" to join two section of cable together "SAFELY & CORRECTLY"?

The plugs should come apart to allow access to the terminals at the rear. Your sparky mate will just direct connect the machine cables to the plug terminals. No joining "somethings" required =)

Yes I know that the plugs come apart and that the cable running from the machine can be directly connected into the plugs once the existing cable is removed from the plug.

However I then loose the cable that is currently connected to the rear of the plugs.

What I was asking was to save and reuse by connecting the two existing cables.

machine > cable <CONECTOR> cable > plug

The other reason is that the cable that comes out of the machine is 500mm long to short for any practical purpose and an extension lead will be required.

Thats kind of why I want the join the cables to gain length.

Hi

there's something funny about that ebay link you posted.
When I follow it, the 1st example of a 3 pin 20A plug looks awfully like a standard 10A domestic plug with a 20A label, even the earth pin looks smaller than what is fitted to a 15A plug, and the pins are the wrong shape for the 20A socket which is the 3rd item on the list.

Also, much of the wire coming out of the plugs looks no thicker than what I commonly see on 10A domestic equipment.


As to reusing the wire on any of those plugs, I suggest you be guided by your sparky. If it were me I'd want a relatively heavy duty cable in a 20A extension lead.

Good to see you found some plugs, every time I looked there never seemed to be any.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

QUESTION

The machines will comes with a cable but no plug - I can buy the plugs with existing cable see photo below. Can you get "something" to join two section of cable together "SAFELY & CORRECTLY"?

The right way to join them is with a 20A socket.
But it won't be worth buying 3 sockets just to gain just 500 mm more of cable length.
Instead of 3 cables snaking around the floor all the time it would be better to have just one you move around to each machine.
I would put those three sockets on the machines and buy another plug and socket to fit to an custom made extension cord long enough to go to any of the machines.
Your sparky should be able to get cable cheap for you.

It's like I entered the twilight zone - what's with all these industrial 20A plugs and IEC? Regular 3 pin Australian outlets are available up to 32A and are as common as muck because they are used for freestanding stoves and range cookers. 20A Clipsal plug tops are less than $20, a switched 20A Clipsal outlet is less than $30. 2.5mm orange circular 2C+E you can buy by the metre easily.

These are upward compatible, you can use a normal 10A plug in a 15, 20, 25 or 32A socket. Plugs fit in the equal rated socket or larger. As this is in a rental property, it's important that you leave behind something useful in future, not just what suits you. Industrial plugs are intrusion protected to IP56 or better, and I can tell you from experience they are a PITA to swap on a regular basis. I have them for 3 phase, but no way would I use them on something that didn't need it.

With the electrician guidance I have picked up three 20amp plugs with long cords and three 20amp sockets outlets and a switch.

What the electrician will do is daisy chain the three 20amp socket outlets together with a switch to create a 20amp power board. This will hang from the ceiling as a pendant. Then all three plugs can be plugs can be plugged into the power board and left plugged in permanently. Since only one machine will ever run at one time this will work as per the above discussions on a 20 amp circuit. Freeing me up from having to unplug stuff to use a new machine.

This is kind of what it will look like but with only three sockets



The Clipsal branded plugs cost me $90 for three including shipping and the NHP branded sockets cost me $45 including shipping. The plugs arrived today and are in brand near new condition as they were used in a server farm.

When I move to a new place the 20amp power board will come with me and I will attach a standard domestic 20amp plug to the end of the GPO.

My electrician asked me to ask Felder/Hammer what the exact power requirements for the machines are.

Each machine needs a 20amp connection but will only draw about 8-9amps when running. You only need to 20amp on start up. The N4400 needs 15amps (best to just put in 20) and will run at 5-6amps

This confirms what Derek Cohen said, that these machines do not really need the 20amps, its just Austrian engineering being meticulous and cautious in their calculations.

A neater and more reliable method might have been to use a 3 way 3 phase rotary switch and the three plugs you already purchased
This would make it impossible to use any more than one machine at any one time

I'm surprised the sparky didn't think of it.

Interesting this 3 way 3 phase rotary switch - We are trying to keep the cost down, using second hand parts as much as possible. It could be something to look into.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Interesting this 3 way 3 phase rotary switch - We are trying to keep the cost down, using second hand parts as much as possible. It could be something to look into.

Here's an example. Single Off 4 Postions Changeover Control Rotary Cam Switch 20A M9C6 | eBay

I'm using their two position switch to switch a VFD 3 phase output between 2 3phase grinders.
Its that switch in the top box.
Trigrinderswitch.jpg

I will bring it up with the electrician.

I have suspended power points though out , that way you can move machinery around

Okay - the electrics for the machine is pretty much sorted. Hopefully installed in the next two weeks.

My thoughts now turn to lighting. At the moment there is a single Fluorescents in the centre of garage and it amounts to about mood lighting.

I have a bench light that I can move around and focus when I need bright focused light.

However the workshop is rather dark and depressing.

Ideally if this was my house I was thinking that I would add 4 more Fluorescents to the ceiling but that is not practical short term but I will discuss it with electrician as a future upgrade.

Reading FWW I understand that I would need to instal 6 Fluorescents spaced no more then 2 meter apart to cover my workshop.

Screen Shot 2017-04-19 at 11.27.55 pm.png

So I was thinking of buying say three of these at 150W and then attaching them somehow to the walls.
dcc0a4e4-2653-4dcf-916a-e5b4836a4eae.jpg

OR

I am thinking of a flood light 1000W like this

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placed in one corner of the workshop.

Any other ideas OR suggestions?

Both of those choices will generate a lot of heat which is going to really heat your shed up especially on a hot summer night..

They also require a lot of power so you may overload your 10A circuit if you want to run these AND something else like your DC on the same circuit.

And they are spotlights so will generate a lot of shadows, you'll really need a much more distributed lighting for a workshop.

I would recommend LED lights of some kind as they provide the best lumens per Watt ratio so least amount of heat for the most light.

General Mechanical workshops should have about 750 lumens per square meter.

To give you an idea of what that means in my 42m^2 shed that means 17 LED KED fluoro tubes which is what I have.
The total power draw if all the lights are on is <300W.