Thread: New canoe project

Lewy,

It's time for an update! (and a summary of how the Paulownia went I reckon!)

Is there any reason why you guys aren't just using PVA (yellow) glue? The strips are going to be completely glass encapsulated so there should never be any moisture on the joins, and the cross-linked PVA is pretty waterproof anyway.

We used it quite successfully in laminating the foils on the PDRacers, and will use it again in similar situations.

cheers,

P

Evening people...With regard to the glues, I did a heap of experimenting before I chose my glue. Yellow glue, and PVA etc all dry harder than the actual Kiri (paulownia) When I test sanded a few pieces I got a raised ridge at the joins. Now I know that that was because I was not using a block, but I figured that on the inside with concave complex curves, a block is not always going to be practical. I chose the polyeurithane for its ease of work. On the dust issue, I am lucky enough to work in the safety industry , so have some pretty good respiration solutions available to me. I always sand with a mask on regardless...

Lewy, or anyone, what is a dynabrade sander?? and is it a good option for the hull?

In answer to young dingo's remarks with regard the fishing line method... I did give it a dry run on one strip. Once again it left fairly noticeable marks on the cove section of the strips. It pulled through the edges, and if it did not pull cleanly, then it crushed the feather edges for about 1cm each side of the line.... I am not sure how easily the wood would recover from this, so I never carried on with it. I did manage to cook up another method, because, like lewy the fly, I could not get the pressure to pull the strips together using clamps on the wedge forms.. As I drove in the wedge, so the wedging form would lift. With not a whole heap of working time, I found myself in a spot of bother on more than one occasion.

A few bevy's were sunk trying to get the correct method though... Let me tell you!!!! I will reveal the method as I continue with the journey through to this far.....

By the way, I hail from Roleystone/ Kelmscott, and if anyone would like to pop by, please feel free to PM me, and you will be most welcome.

Well... that sorta stuffs my suggestion up the khyber pass without a paddle eh!

That Kiri (Pauliwannia) MUST be dead soft eh?... when I tried it ti didnt mar the surface or pull the edge of the bead down noticably only a pin prick hole was left... anyways no worries!! You got it sussed Thicky one keep at it

And yes its time for an update Lewy

Thickas good progress

I thought Lewy the Fly was going to respond to your WATFAA que (with a name like that) but alas sounds like he missed it. I do a bit of FF but I'm ambidextrous an do a bit in saltwater as well. Shassie was a means to getting out on all these great rivers down this way ... still haven't tried to FF from Shassie but the beginning of the new season will get here soon enough and if this rain keeps up there might be water actually flowing down the rivers this year.

Anyway back to canoe building. I just used PVA for my strips. Worked a treat. Planes very well with a sharp block plane. If you think you have troubles sanding pva wait til you get couple of dribbles of the pox thru to the inside before you've faired the inside. As far as fairing the inside, why not plane that too ... I did, you just need to modify the plane a bit (described how I did that) and it was only a $40 plane ... I know it'll come in useful again some day. A Nice sharp and flexible cabinet scraper also worth it's weight in gold.

I used poly for my paddles but I would keep well clear of it for all the strips ... do you where carbon filter while gluing up as well? How tedious! I enjoyed the relaxing action of wondering out after work, bare foot, no special clothing, no gloves, plonk a strip or two on, go in for dinner, wash hands with soap and water (poly on hands yuk... stains for days). But you go for it, I went against the flow with the rolling bevel rather than B&C and I went with poly for the paddles instead of the pox (which I even like less than poly) and a few other things but they suited me and I don't know even now if I'd change things looking back.

I'll take you up on the visit to Rolleystone when I'm up that way some time.

Oh by the way I found the cheapest and easiest clamps too....


They're called staples

Keep up the good work Thickas. Meet you on Serpentine Dam ... if we're allowed to canoe on it??

Originally Posted by Wild Dingo

That Kiri (Pauliwannia) MUST be dead soft eh?... when I tried it ti didnt mar the surface or pull the edge of the bead down noticably only a pin prick hole was left... anyways no worries!!

Dingo ... most us don't try to build out of TUART

Originally Posted by Ramps

Dingo ... most us don't try to build out of TUART

Oh and Ramps? you know you were saying you couldnt get Jarrah to do the stems?...



Jarrah strips for the INNER stem of the bow!!


ooh and Ramps?




And something else?



Notice the inner stem mate?? mmmm?? yep Jarrah... easy as too... just boil some water pour into a bowl get tee towels soak said tee towels in said boiling water lay said tee towels over Jarrah strips keep going till said strips are soft enough to bend around form bend said strips around form putting more boiling water soaked tee towels over said jarrah strips over said forms until they sit flat to each other take tee towels off said jarrah strips and glue said strips to each other and clamp to form... easy as!!

Do not take any notice whatever of the stuff that appears to be masking tape as this was taken prior to getting the info on the fishing line and well prior to taking said canoe apart and into garden of old place... I tried to find the damned imagestation or shutterfly album I created where Id got it almost done using the fishing line method when I realized that Tuart is a rather heavy wood and shouldnt really be used for a canoe... just ignore it and believe this...

Dynabrade is a brand of random orbit sander air operated with dust extraction. No I dont sell them and there are other brands dynabrade seems to have become the generic name for that type of sander.

As for the glues and ease of sanding I found that the Titebond III set harder than other PVA's which tend to be a little rubbery, however I still found that the glue was harder and I did get slight ridging on the glue lines, but when I gave it a sealer coat of resin and then another sand it came up smick. That was not the only reason for using Titebond III, it is water proof and the use of water resistant just didnt ring true with me.

By the way on the progress side of things with my boat, my brother has arrive for the Sanctuary Cove boat show, he's an expert fiberglasser (into vacuum invusion) so guess whos doing the final skin on the outside. I've done one layer to the water line and now theres a second layer over the
top of that and a single layer on the top sides. All 287gsm. By the way I think it was Ramps had a problem getting wide cloth. The place to go is COLAN theyre on the net and in Sydney. Great service and advice I got 287gsn Cloth 1550mm wide.

Regards

Lewy

Dingo
I'll have to send you some of my 80yr old matured in a Perth home roof recycled type Jarrah and I'll see if you can work you magic with that. ... Mine had a week of soaking and didn't even look wet. By the way Dingo by the look of the date on that stem mould the glue is probably dry by now And they look like mighty wide strips there Dingo or is just cos it's a WEE lassie?
Thanks Lewy but I ended up being looked after by Duck Flat ... they're closer but they were the closest suppliers of 1.5m cloth that I could find. I think It was a Colan product anyway? Oh for an expert FG'er brother ... hang on I don't even have a brother!

Look Ramps... IT WAS TUART!! You get one go at that stuff before the tools go blunt the swearing turns purple and you loose all control... so its run through the saw straight through the router and done!!... measure? who had time for measuring??

As to the Jarrah... at least you know how old your Jarrah is! that stuff is gawd alone knows how old it was just a peice of recycled jarrah Id scored somewhere or other... the strips were thin!! well less that 1/4in

Anyways mate for what its worth? You win!! yours is done an in the water... mines back to just the moulds and the building board and if it was me with that sheoak Id have used it as well... but the missus wanted coffee table side tables clocks and such other nonsence out of the bit I had

thanks for the replies and stuff.. Where is the photo of your scarf joint ramps??

I spent a few hours on the canoe on Sat - and it was quite hard work.. just as well this is not a warts and all expose' or you would know all my mistakes...
After I screwed the first strips on, I was going like the clappers an hour each side - about 15 mins to remove the clamps, and about 45 to glue and clamp back up. Then ten mins to do three scarf joints, then the other side. I managed seven strips the first day, and then another six on the second..(Damn lawn, trees and gutters!!)

I spent a whole day doing a feature strip, I used some red ceder that I stripped down to three mils, I ran a strip through the table saw and split it into three length ways. Then I put the ceder strips into the middle, and it looked great. I set it up, and glued it. It never glued very well, and left some unrecoverable gaps along the length.......it turned into firewood pretty quick, but I lost a whole day. I decided not to have a feature strip after that, and concentrated on the canoe.

I think the feature strip came up quicker than I thought and I never had much time to plan it. Most people would just throw on a darker strip, but I wanted mine to be special.... never allowed enough time for it to be special. After the amount of time I had spent on setup, once I was stripping I did not want to stop....

PLAN YOUR FEATURE STRIP. Decide on it and if it needs to be made, make it while you are setting up, and getting bored.

I told you that I could not get on with the clamping system, so I spent a lot of time in th evenings researching how else to do it. You may all know this method, but I came up with a few personalisations of my own.

I bought 17 meters of bungy cord - 0.5m per station. I used my bradder to nail the bungy cord to the inside of the mould, and used some cord tied to the moulds to restrain it. The coves on the wood have been protected by 6mm dowells and it has worked great. Really,,,I can now put two strips on an hour. I have been clamping the stems and sterns, but the bungy cords have been a dream. Have a look at the pictures below and it will explain it all - a picture paints a thousand words eh......

SO WHADDAYA THINK EH....

KUDO'S AND HERO WORSHIP WELCOMED

This is nearly up to date now.... A few more pics, and we are nearly there now. I am nearly closing the football, but with fishing this long weekend, I am not sure when I will get a chance to do much more... Then there is the deck (110 sq meters) and pool blah blah.. SO it may be a while...

I will keep you all informed though.. BTW thanks for the contact for the cloth lewy..

Cheers for the mo..

Bradders

Bungy rope fishin line same diff ... an now you say you got fishing this weekend I now know your reluctance to use fishin line

Coming along well thuck one

Howdy all,

Based on my experience, thus not "TRUTH"

Staples
I don't like them though haven't tried the plastic kind.

The reason I don't like them is they leave a plethora of little holes that are always visible. Because there end up being so many and you can't line them up I think it doesn't look as neat. Question of taste.

I like the method they use at duck flat - a two flat headed thin gauge nail with a small piece of "electrician's spagetti" threaded on. Line up the holes and it looks neat. The plastic bears down on the timber in a very even way and simultaneously holds the nail heads above the surface of the timber for easy extraction.

I've seen people use a PVA tube as well.

You just cut up the plastic into 6mm pieces and sit in front of the TV one night threading away.

The thing about the nails is that they have awesome pulling power - so the strips stay put. There is very little need for further taping and pulling.

Paulownia
is very soft but from conversations with people - by the time it is glassed there is little difference between it and WRC. That comes from an NZ dude that uses his paulownia sea kayak for rocky surf landings and all sorts of horrors. In other words you can damage both of them but there is little practical difference once the glass goes on. Before then the Paulownia is very easy to dent.

Dents can be pulled out by brushing some water on them - a trick I used with my balsa planked canoe - that works nicely on other low density timbers as well

MIK