Thread: New canoe project

I think this will be a few photos, and if that works I will go and watch House......I will add more tomorrow when there is cr@p on the goggle box... See ya soon..

Bradders

Good effort
can't believe that you take time off to watch the box though ... I've still got an archaic piece of equipment called a video so as I can watch that important show when I have to be inside with the kids ... but at the moment it doesn't get used.
By the look of all those holes in the forms it looks like you're going for the stapleless system.
watching, watching

oooh geez get the damned shed dirty dusty chaotic will yer!!... gawd the glare of ugh clean is killin me eyesockets

But well tis an honest shed eh? all tin an concrete an shiney too!! glare mate glare

ANYWAYS!!!... good to see you get to this stage... and heres watchin yer either get further along or stop for whatever reason pack them away and start agin in a years time only to... mmm oh right thats me eh? Ive only started mine 5 times now and every single flamin time I get that far she comes up with something else she must have done NOW!!... actually I near got there once upon a time.. yep all the way round I went almost to the keel... only to find that Tuart really isnt a very good hull timber to use on a supposedly light weight boat like a conoe eh ... still its a fine start

As ramps says are you going for the staple less system or the fishing line system?

Cheers!

That a canoe or a flamin' battleship

Yeah yeah, it's just the angle of the photos but she looks huge. Don't get too fussed about perfection - it's needed in places (and fairing the moulds is a good place to get it right) but remember, you're building a boat, not a swiss watch.

Thanks for the photos - I can see another fascinating trip ahead for us

Richard

All advise readily accepted.....I have progressed quite far from this point, but a couple of slack weeks have given me some spare time!!!! So now then - oh yes, filling and sanding and filling and sanding... I remember.....My shed only looks sparkly 'cos I had a MAJOR clean up before I started, and I decided for once in my life to keep and area clean.. When I built my bed (pic below) I actually lost one of the legs... !!! It was hidden under some sawdust lol

So when I had the moulds right, I had to fair them, this for the uninitiated (as I was and I still only think this is right) is when you ease the edge of the moulds so that no sharp angles intersect the wooden strips.... So out with the plane, and then the belt sander... Plane is still alive - belt sander karked it!!!

Anyway...I digress. So I eased the moulds using a strip of wood attached to two stations behind, and two in front of the mould I was working on. This allowed me to get the right angle. It left me with about two mils of flat untouched mould that had not been eased off. This is all that is in contact with the strips as they are laid against the stations.

At this point I was really tired, and a bit disheartened. I had put in about 50 hours, and so far I had nothing to show for it. I would say that if I was going to give up - it would have been during the fairing process.

Anyhoo, I am scooting for a while - will hop back on in an hour or two..

Bradders

Originally Posted by Thickasaplank

When I built my bed (pic below) I actually lost one of the legs... !!! It was hidden under some sawdust lol

Bradders

Is that a bed - it looks more like a PDRacer.

MIK

Mik
I reckon you could design a sail for it ... he must have lost the centreboard in the sawdust as well

Thickas ... promise to take a pic of the scarf joint in the Sheaok gunnels on the w/e for you ... it'll come ... promise

Thickas is just living up to his name is all... start with canoe moulds end up with bed

Got me wonderin what hes gonna end up with when he starts the paddle I reckon probably turn it into a chook run ;:

Can't a bloke have a quiet boast?? Hey Daddles, whadaya know about paddles

I have not even given them a thought yet.. I suppose that is a reason to have a bit of pondering time away from swmbo... weeeelll I am fishing over the long weekend... (any watfaa members out there??)

So anyway, I nearly gave up, but didn't... I finished the sanding, and the fairing, and then stuch masking tape on the edges of the mould...It never bl00dy stuck did it. So I cleaned the moulds with alcohol, and drank some, and then tried again.

Bugger it I will just build it on unstuck masking tape.. By the way - the holes that a very erudite fellow spotted - a LOT of hard work, a total PITA and worth nothin' used em for a day then gave em away.

So now I had the moulds up, and in place, I had the moulds faired and all covered in unstuck masking masking tape. I had decided on sheoak for my finishings... not copying you ramps - completely independent choice, onlyy realised you had the same scheme when I re-read you superb thread. So I shot down to the jarahdale mill and had a word with Terry there, and he was cutting sheoak right at that moment. this is where I learned a valuable lesson... Never ask a bloke who has been cutting timber for twenty years what he is doing, cos you make him mad.. Also, dont second guess him when you have specified the sizes, also don't ask him if he is sure he heard you right.

This will serve to anger the said gentleman, and, while he will still give you what you want (business is business) it may lighten your wallet more than you expected...

I had decided to go for the double stem design, (both inner and outer stems) and tapered to boot. Greenvalley suggest that the tapered stems are a lot of hard work, and only suggest you do them if you are confident.. I was confidant, but in hindsight reckon that they were a lot of work. Only do tapered stems if you have a LOT of time.....

I digress. I asked Terry for 12 pieces of 6mmX42mmX1,5m pieces of sheoak, and when he went ferreting around the 19mm stock, I questioned him, and then when he picked up some dodgy looking offcuts, I asked him if he had the dimensions right.. That is when I got the "laddie, I have been cutting wood................." speech

It turns out he cut the wood into strips, making 3 6mm cuts out of the 19 mm plank, this gives the best grain pattern... quarter sawn. Boy did I feel like a plonker!!

I passed the strips through the planer, and trimmed them to 42X6X1.5m and then, even thought the had a moisture content of about 92% I steamed them. I used a length of 105mm plastic pipe with plugs top and bottom. A household steam cleaner with its spout poked in a hole at the bottom. I kept the steam going 'till the plastic pipe was hot enough to squeeze out of shape really easily, then I took out the sheoak, and bent it around the stem mould and clamped them in place... What a beauty!!!! 6 pieces per stem - 3 inner and 3 outer.and they bent a treat. Whew. I never got a photo of them 'cos I was pretty busy. Once the wood was bent, I left them for two days to "set" and the removed them and kept them clamped together. I brought them inside, made a "tent"out of an old double duvet, and two chairs. I put the bow, and stern stems under the tent with an oil heater. I left them there for a week until the moisture content was 20%, and then refitted them to the stem moulds. (note to self: When fitting stems, do not try to fit stern stem to bow mould, or one of the pieces will crack causing grief at a later date...)

Tapered stems are hard work. I glued them up - remember that you only put glue between 1/2 2/3 4/5 5/6 or else you will get one very thick stem. I used polyureathane for the stem. I left them for two days to cure and then I trimmed them up using a taper cutting jig on the table saw, and it came out good, then I cut the 1/2 inch straight section (as detailed in greenval) which turned out great, then I cut the inner stems 12mm smaller than the outer stems on the same profile (allowing for 6mm strips each side) BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD.. the inner stems are 6mm narrower on the FACE edge only, the rear edge has to be wider to allow for fairing. Oh well first big mistake.. but hey, nothing we cant fix eh?? I never cut new stems as the whole episode was rather stressfull, and once again morale was at a low.. I just wanted to get passed it. I enjoy woodwork immensely, but, as a bit of a perfectionist, get a little het up when I make avoidable errors....

I won't tell you how I fixed it - but will challenge you all to try and see the mistake on the completed canoe...

I shaped the stems, and fixed them onto the moulds. I then used a japanese pull saw to cut three quarters around the stems 3/4 inches below the completed gunnell line so that when the boat is completed I can take the stems down to hide the end grain with the decks and the gunnells. It will be a lot easier now that they are significantly weakened.. a sharp tap should break them off quite cleanly.

I was now in a position to fit the first strips, and once again I had to do a heap of research.. what glue, and how to do the scarf joints.... MUCH PONDERING!!!!!! My head hurt..

The paulownia I am using (thanks Ramps) is very soft - very similar to Balsa.. 290kg/m3, so very soft. I did a few test pieces with yellow, white and PVA glues from my glue box, and let dribbles and runs dry rather than cleaning them off... Then I sanded the test pieces, and came to the conclusion that the glue dries harder than the wood. I did know this before hand but I wanted to check how it sanded. I had trouble - real trouble. Getting the runs off with a sharp chisel gouged the wood, using a ROS made divots in the wood, the only way I could get a nice finish was to use a sanding block. I was ready to tear my hair out, so I tried my poly on the strip. I had discounted using poly because of the cost, but the test piece was superb, easy clean up of the foam, and it sanded like a dream. The only drawback was the cure time of four hours.

BACK TO PONDERING. The internet provided the solution, (and I can't remember what it is... I can't be bothered to go out to my shed right now......) but it is a poly, with a set up time of 1/2 hours, and a clamp time of 1 hour (it is titebond) but at 30 bucks a bottle.. WHEW!!

I kept the tip closed and drilled a 1mm hole through the end, so I did not waste any, and I was good to go.....I set up my compound sliding mitre saw to 45 degrees on my 5 meter bench, set up a fence either side with stops at the correct lengths, and made my first scarf... yeah yeah - I know 45 degs is not much, but you can hardly see them, and they are not load bearing. I used a few straight edges and some spring clamps to clamp them while they dried. I have managed to keep the scarfs random on the boat by cutting a few strips at random lengths, and then mating the random length to a "new" strip, and measuring against the stops to get the correct length. It will make your life sooo much easier if you can get strips the full length
of your boat. Mine were 9 inches too short, and I nearly nearly went for a 14 foot boat to accomodate the length of timber I could get.

The first strip is the most important - it must be screwed to the mould stations, and the screw holes are eventually covered by the gunnells, so don't worry about them. THIS IS A SIGNIFCANT POINT _ ENJOY IT!!

I used some tec screws with oversized heads to allow lots of pressure if needed (it wasn't) WOOHOO

So here are some photo's I bought a heap of electricians tape - and it is dead usefull, I got it from the bargain bits at mitre ten - thats where I got my sawhorses as well and my spring clamps.... cheap is good enought. My small sash clampsI got from bunnings - five bucks for two, and I bought 16 - I had 15, so I now have thirty one, plus about sixty spring clamps and a dozen big sashies (you don't need them all in the end... but I was well prepared!!)

Soooo whos a clever dick then?!! Well done Thickone!

Now you were a tad thick werent you with the masking tape idea? really mate thats what we are here for to set you on the right path ASK and ye shall be informed

First tip... toss the damned masking tape!! dont go any further until you go get some duct tape!! the 2in blue stuff... holds like buggary and perfect for canoe moulds

Second tip... Titebond is good stuff!! I have no idea what the poly stuff is your on about but Titebond is the go... actually to stick the strips to each other you can simply use the white glue as you will be covering the canoe with epoxy which is a bloody great glue and fibreglass the glue up of the strips only needs to securely hold the strips to its brother.

Third tip... you can put the clamps away... yes you heard me! put the buggars away save them for the big boat build... for a canoe use fishing line to hold the strips to the mould

Let me elaborate... once your first strip is held down with the screws like you say your next and subsequent strips only need to be held to the cove of the preceeding strip and to the mould right? right... so at the stem or the first mould put in a screw say a half inch to inch screw with enough bite that it wont move but with enough screw left out to hold the fishing line... now where you show the moulds having holes cut out you simply wind the fishing line around the strip and through the hole around the strip and through the hole all the way along the strip and with another screw in the other end mould or stem wind it around that and go around the other side exactly the same as the first.

You will end up pulling the strip down to the first strip and to the mould and it will hold there as you tie of and go around the other end... you will have tiny pinprick holes where the line has gone through between the strips but they will not be noticable whatever once youve finished sanding and fiberglassing... to remove the fishing line before fibreglassing its simply a quick run around with a stanly blade a few slashes at the line and a gentle pull and out it comes easy as... BELIEVE ME THIS DOES WORK! is a lot less hassle than clamps and you can simply keep going up the hull to the keel no need to stop and wait for the glue to set up or to clamp up just put the strip to its mate and wind the fishing line around... work smart not hard is a good motto

Fourth tip... think about your paddle NOW! you dont want to have your ubeaut canoe finished and have to use one of those shocking yellow plastic bladed paddles!! You want a wooden one to match your beautiful canoe!!... also like the seat if you are going to do as Ramps did and make one yourself it will give you something to do between jobs on quiet weekends and when the inlaws turn up unexpectantly!

Okay any other questions... PLEASE ASK!!! before you start preferably

But youve got a good start... oh and those bloody mill blokes are a cranky lot eh? shoulda asked about that too! But... well done!!

Sheesh. I had a day's stuff planned here but after reading that lot, I'm too exhausted

She's still looking very nice. Appalling standards your setting there mate.

Mik has paddle plans on his site - go for a dig there and yes, start making them now, they're the sort of thing you can do while waiting for the glue to dry.

Richard

I must agree daddles appalling standards.. however I do believe it was that shocking young reprobate Ramps who set such standards you know... twas a shocker when he built that canoe I mean the bloke either has a wonderously considerate missus (which having met her Id say thats a pretty good assessment of mine ) or doesnt work!! I mean how the hell does a bloke build a canoe in what was it? about a month!! rotten sod... here Ive been at it for what? 4 years!!!

And now we have the thick one goin hell for leather tryin to outdo Ramps's legendary efforts

But still I think I will beat them both cause like Ramps ol Thicky wont use the ubeaut fishing line trick as he like ramps wont beleive me... And then I will get my bum up to wherever Ramps got his Pauliwannia from shortly and then using the ubeaut fishing line trick I shall rip them both apart!