Thread: Clayton Bay 144LV - 12ft plywood kayak

I tried to sell it as a positive, but SWMBO has dreams of getting the back verandah
back for social & pot-plant-growing activities. Legs on deck a fair indication of stability.
With a bigger cockpit, I might have tried same. Really happy with it (other than weight).
This one, I'd be comfortable putting my name to plans, confident of no bad events
coming back to bite me.

Had much fun today chasing daughter around (and trying to run away). Sore-as now
but ! Arms nearly falling out of sockets. Wifes back hurts. Toss-up whether next boat
will be another of these, or MIKs Eureka. Oh, and daughter wants a PDR too...

What time are you thinking to go paddling tomorrow? I'll be at the church in the pub at
Seaford until about 11:00-ish.

cheers
AJ

Was thinking of doing a couple of hours in the morning - would probably be heading back by 11.
However, it's always better with company so if you are interested in another session tomorrow let me know - the day is "rearrangeable" given a bit of notice. I would have come down for a look today if I'd known where you were (stone's throw from here).

Congratulations AJ. The boat looks really terrific. I'm sorry I missed the splash. Missed a good bit of action while away. I'm also particularly pleased that you are happy with the specifics of performance that you were aiming for, it must be a bit special to be sitting in your own design.

I hope you take a moment, just bobbing around on the water, quite still one day, and run through in your mind the very beginnings of the design process; the problems, the lines, the shapes, the practicalities. Maybe the compromises, and the dramas. Conjure them up in detail so the reality doesn't just slip away unnoticed!
Nothing beats being right across a creative process from idea to implementation.
I will have a ceremonial ale on your behalf.
Rob

Ta muchly Rob.
Funny thing : it was more relief than pleasure.
Overall, this is own-design number 6 that I have built, so that part is not new. So...

Relief that it doesn't have any glaring defects such as designs Mk.1 & Mk.2 do.
Relief that it floated.
Level.
Relief that SWMBO found it easy to handle, and even managed to paddle back from
the Onka mouth against the falling tide.
Relief that I don't have to go back to Hulls & do it all again.

Actually, it was odd getting out of Mk.2 straight into Mk.3.
Mk.2 requires attention to balance all the time. That desire to throw its rider makes it
seem lively, even with 100+Kg of me in in it. By comparison, Mk.3 seemed lifeless &
sedate, even though it isn't significantly slower for any given paddle effort.

Pleasure will come when, for an on-the-spur-of-the-moment paddle, I reach for Mk.3 off
the rack rather than Mk.2.

I think.

cheers
AJ

Wrist much improved - got out a couple of times this week to test wrist & boat.

Took it to Duck Flat on Monday & got the Pat & Dave nods of approval.

Tuesday on West Lakes - a very relaxed lap of Delphin Island, very cautious of being
stranded with a dud paw a long walk from the car. On dead-flat water, 6.2km in
59 minutes, including several minutes stopped, watching Pacers & kayak lessons, and
yarning with the outdoor education teachers supervising them. At no time did I paddle
hard enough to raise a sweat or even breathe heavy. Would easy trim ten minutes off
the time if I put a bit of effort into it. Gotta be happy with that from a 12ft boat..

Then out on the Onk yesterday, putting in at the Commercial Rd bridge.
Ended up going out the mouth, on the not-quite-last of the ebb, up to the Port Noalunga
jetty, then back along the inside of the reef & back against the very last of the ebb to the
bridge. 7.5km return in just over 90 mins, including a short stop to restow baggage.

A bit lumpy on the open water. For a small kayak anyway - mixture of a 12-inch chop &
18-inch swell. Slowed me down a bit. plus -very- shallow water in the Onk. Stayed mostly dry.
Fore deck shed water quickly when driving into the swell - nothing from ahead came into the
open cockpit. A couple of nodes from bi-directional wave pattern upped & smacked me in the
side. Felt very stable & secure. Almost-but-not-quite-boring. Not an open water boat by any
stretch of the imagination, but one that takes reasonable care of the driver..
Happy?
You bet!
Mk.II is definitely a quicker boat, but much more work staying upright, and quite worrying in
the sort of chop Mk.III handled with ease. Not sure how much use it will get now...
AJ

Good to hear your news AJ, and glad the wrist has come good in time for some lovely Autumn weather- I hope.

By the sound of it, early morning water like glass; feeling a bit frisky (in a dignified mature sort of way) Mk11 would fulfill the need for velocity. After work, late paddle, small waves, bit of a breeze: Mk 111 will find you some space, look after you and not wet your camera.

Sounds pretty darn good to me.

Bugga about the wrist AJ - that could mess with your drinking

Glad to hear the new boat went well too, even if it is one of them canoethingamabobs Interesting the comparisons.

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

Then out on the Onk yesterday, putting in at the Commercial Rd bridge.
Ended up going out the mouth, on the not-quite-last of the ebb, up to the Port Noalunga
jetty, then back along the inside of the reef & back against the very last of the ebb to the
bridge. 7.5km return in just over 90 mins, including a short stop to restow baggage.

How do you find getting in and out through the mouth? They only times I've been there it's been like a mill race and not something I'd risk the boat with. How do you judge when the flattest water is, the Onk seems to operate a couple of hours behind the tides

Richard

G'day Rob
Forget dignified & mature. Ain't quite ready for either of those words yet !!
Frisky.... let's not go there...

G'day Daddles
no problem with the drinking. Some things are worth learning ambidexterity.

The Onka mouth is no big deal provided the wind isn't a-blowing on-shore and
the surf isn't a-surfing. "Flat" water only happens on about 250 days per year.
Idea is to try to sneak through gaps where the waves aren't actually breaking.
That's where the deep(er) water is. Easier to do on the way out than it is on
the way in. Especially when your eyes are only about 700mm above waterline.

cheers
AJ

Sounds like you have a very capable boat there AJ - did you try surfing at all?
Had a go in mine and managed 1 wave OK then broached and rolled on the second .

I went back through the thread looking for dimensions but can't find them - just wondering what the beam is and if the design program gave you any predicted performance figures like drag and stability factors.

I'm still interested in a co-paddle but can only make it on weekends.

G'day Bob

L=143" B=24"

main performance data "Hulls" produces are
gross weight .............. 200lb .... 250lb
Prismatic Coefficient.... 0.54 ..... 0.52
D/L ratio ...................... 48 ........ 67
S/L ratio .................... 2.48 ....... 2.23
D/L limited speed ....... 8.4kts ..... 7.7kts

where 200lb is upper-end of the ideal paddler weight range & 250lb is a bit less than me...

Hulls only does snapshots of stability at different weights at a specified angle.
It doesn't do a "run" & produce a graph. And the COG is assumed to be at the
geometric centre of area, whereas in real life, depending upon body shape, it is
likely to be .... somewhere else! But for example, righting moment at 10deg
heel @ 200lbs is 26ft-pounds.

Had a couple of goes at catching a wave but didn't succeed as I couldn't try hard
without risking re-injury. Have played in small surf in Mk.1 which has an almost
identical bottom. No particular dramas. Mk.2 catches ripples almost effortlessly
but is murder to keep upright when it does...

cheers
AJ

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

G'day Bob
---snip---

cheers
AJ

Bob, he means that it floated (to his great surprise), that he survived to tell the tale (to his great surprise) and that no-one noticed that the great god Poseidon was holding the thing out of the water for most of the time

Richard

who is going to have to take this kayak carryon seriously eventually because his beloved Janet loves paddling but can't get the hang of rowing ... dammit

Strewth Bob ... Daddles has cracked the sekrit code.

Yeah it's all a bit technical but from what I've read I'd say that stability figure is pretty good. The Cp figure you have (supposedly) indicates that it will perform better at lower speeds. Not sure about D/L ratio but the D/L limited speed I assume to be what some people call "hull speed" and what I interpret as the point at which drag increases rapidly as speed increases. This would would be a sudden steepening of the drag/speed graph if you had one. The value sounds pretty good to me - especially for a hull of this size. From experience paddling with a speed indicating GPS I think my Laker hull speed is only around 6kph as I need to go really hard to get above that - but then I'm a 98 lb weakling so who knows what it would do with a "real" paddler.

The other thing I interpret from the post is that you've built a boat that is far too small for you - did I get that right ?

Anyhow, ultimately I guess Daddles is basically right so it's all good..

And Daddles - sounds like your next project will be a Eureka canoe with oarlocks at the front for you and a paddlers seat at the back for the good lady .

G'day Bob
I seem to remember reading somewhere that narrow boats "cheat" on displacement
hull speed, and that the amount of cheating is dependent upon actual displacement or
draft. At 200lbs, draft is 3". At 250lbs, draft is 4". So the D/L ratio figures are more-
or-less proportional to D, but the only way I can get near the D/L figure as a straight
ratio is to use troy-ounces & centi-cubits.

Certainly moves through the water easily at low speed. Achieve strolling speed with
hands only. Faster than a brisk walk is very relaxing paddle. Then it gets harder.
Quickly. Pretty soon the EPA is involved due to wake damage to infrastructure &
river banks...

Is it too small ? I'm a snug but comfortable fit. It floats (always a good thing), it goes
where it is pointed reasonably quickly, it fits into tight corners around rocks & snags
without fuss, it is dead easy to manhandle & store on land... Sure a longer boat
would be quicker, but this size ticks my boxes just now. Anyway, I built it for the
missus & daughter. It does everything a bit better for them. That it works for me too
is a bonus.
cheers
AJ