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  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Hi,

    Forgot about this thread

    Firstly, "A Skin On Frame boat will be even quicker again." - Definitely agree. I've just built a Yost Sea Cruiser (17' wood-frame SOF kayak). Designed by Tom Yost - see www.yostworks.com for a whole collection of FREE SOF designs - including folders - built by many happy paddlers. Mine's still to get on the water, but it looks great in it's black PVC skin, and with paulownia framework is very light.

    Secondly, to Joust's questions:

    It paddles very well. Sat down a bit low in the stern initially, but I moved the seat forwards and it's fine. As it was designed under the 'old' rules it is bigger volume than neccessary, but paddles great and quite stable for a TK1.

    I never got around to weighing it, but it should come out at around 12kg's as built. I added a commercial footrest/tiller, rudder and seat so it's probably closer to 14kg. Still pretty light but heavier than today's carbon & kevlar TK1's.

    I'd certainly recommend it, and it looks better than a fiberglass one - and a hell of a lot cheaper. If you want to race, a newer fiberflass one will probably go faster but as a general fitness/paddling kayak for rivers and lakes it is excellent. I am about to start a strip one, and will use this as my backup kayak (another Payne design - he does great kayaks!).

    Good luck if you decide to build one. Didn't take too long.

    Regards,
    Darren

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    6

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    excellent,
    thanks for the response. might order a set of his plans soon. I have sailed on a few yachts he has designed also.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    'Delaide, Australia
    Age
    65
    Posts
    8,138

    Default

    Hey Darren,

    Do you have some pics of the Payne TK1, I've only seen the drawings in his catalogue .. and David has a great eye for detail.

    MIK

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sth Gippsland
    Posts
    4

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    There was a Greenland skin on frame kayak at Hobart this year, and a West Greenland stripper. Quite a few skin on frame canoes too. I have ambitions to build two kayaks, one for myself and one for SWMBO. Hers will have a flatter bottom for stability. Couple of other boats to finish first though.

  6. #20
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Hi Mik,

    No photos apart from the earlier ones in this thread.

    I'm just in the process of painting the bottome white, and re-building the coackpit coaming, so once done I'll post some pics.

    David has drawn me some strip-planked TK1 plans, and I'm about to start building this (after many distractions). This looks like it'll be much faster than the ply version but less stable. The ply one does paddle well and in training kept up with modern glass/carbon designs.

    Pics coming soon (Just need to add the deck to my SOF one) - it's a good kayak.

    Regards,
    Darren

  7. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Hi darren,

    you mentioned an updated strip TK1, i have emailed David payne, but no response.
    sounds like what im after, as i was not convinced to do the ply one.
    please keep me in the loop if you got the plans, and if you have started the build.
    I would like to get hold of the plans for ths one.

    Regards,
    Alex

  8. #22
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Daylesford, Victoria
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Hi,

    David travels a fair bit (and works hard) so can sometimes take a while to reply. But he should get back to oyu.

    I've got the plans, and got the forms sorted. Looks like a nice shape, and with the removal of the minimum waterline beam ruling, he was able to make a nicely rounded hull section which should provide less wetted surface area and a faster boat.

    I am trying to finish a Night Heron first (well, I've got the forms up and strips cut!) but hope to make a start on it soon as it will be a lot faster than my ply one.

    Plans are great, up to David's usual high standard. Although eh drew them for me, they were designed to be ones he'd sell to others.

    Hopefully he's not waiting for me to finish the prototype...I must email him myself. I thought I'd have it ready for the World Masters in October, but I just haveen't had the time.

    Let me know how you get on.

    Regards,
    Darren

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tuross Head, South Coast, NSW
    Age
    77
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joust View Post
    Hi darren,

    you mentioned an updated strip TK1, i have emailed David payne, but no response.
    sounds like what im after, as i was not convinced to do the ply one.
    please keep me in the loop if you got the plans, and if you have started the build.
    I would like to get hold of the plans for ths one.

    Regards,
    Alex
    Why not download Kayak Foundry from this site and design your own?
    http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/kayak/index.html
    I did and this is what it looks like.
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...15#post1001115

  10. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    6

    Default

    thanks for the replies guys,

    ive had a look at the kayak design program, but not too sure of parameters to design around. I have a capacity sports TK1 here, but things like volume and rocker to aim for are hard to work out. ?

    interested in the forms you came up with anewhouse, i have seen your pics and its a good looking craft for sure. Paulownia sounds like the go, a friend of mine has a plantation of them , might hit him up for a bit.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tuross Head, South Coast, NSW
    Age
    77
    Posts
    155

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    If you are interested, I could send you the file and you could either just look at it or print out the forms and make one of your own.

    I could also send you another version of the file with a couple of minor changes to the deck that I think would be an improvement but would not change the way it performed. At least I could do that when i get the changes done to the file.

    i have promised to present some comparative figures soon to compare this TK1 with a Sabre TK1 and my sea kayaks.

    Even if you never do anything with the file, I think it is interesting to look at other people's designs.

    The good thing about that program is that you might decide you are prepared to accept a bit less stability than me so you might be able to squeeze a little bit more speed out of it. Or you might be stronger than me and be prepared to accept a bit more drag at 4 knots in order to reduce the drag at 5.5 knots. Or you might be a bit heavier, so you would have to change the paddler weight and then fiddle with a few things to get the best performance for yourself.

    Anyway, if you are interested, I could send you the file if you already have Kayak Foundry or are prepared to download it.

  12. #26
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    6

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    a copy of the file you made yours from would be great, very much appreciated.
    will most likely fiddle with volume as i am a bit on the heavy side at 85kg. not sure how your TK1 would support this?

    i have a great source of paulownia, a fellow i know has a plantation, and can get me trees. i have the machinery, so that bit is easy.
    also, what was the built time for yours?

    Thanks Again

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tuross Head, South Coast, NSW
    Age
    77
    Posts
    155

    Default

    The hull and deck of the TK1 probably would have been about 10 or 20 hours quicker than a sea kayak because the strips didn't have to bend up at the bow and stern and it is a slightly smaller craft. The rudder would have eaten up all the time saved though.

    It took me 165 hours, but I already had a strongback and I didn't need to do the cutout on the forms for the internal strongback because I recycled some of the forms from an earlier kayak. On the other hand I did spend five or six hours scraping and sanding the seal coat off the hull because the rain blew in on the uncured epoxy and made it go blotchy.

    I have attached a copy of the file. I had to change the extension on the filename to .txt file to be able to attach it. You will have to change it back to .yak to be able to open it with Kayak Foundry. If that doesn't work, we will think of something else.

    As far as I am aware, because the shape of the hull in pretty much constrained by the regulations, the change that is made to a TK1 to make it suit an 85kg paddler instead of a 60kg paddler is just to raise the deck a bit to increase the volume.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Adelaide - outer south
    Age
    67
    Posts
    935

    Default

    Darren and Allen,

    What glue do you use to glue the strips on?
    Cheers, Bob the labrat

    Measure once and.... the phone rings!

  15. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Allan , could not open the file.
    I have made contact with David payne, and hes is sending me his strip TK1 plans.
    hopefully it works out pretty well

    thanks for the input, will keep you updated on the build

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tuross Head, South Coast, NSW
    Age
    77
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Any old woodworking glue will do. It really only has to hold the wood together until you get the fibreglass on. You don't need anything like epoxy because it never gets wet.

    In fact almost any PVA wood glue is stronger than the timber itself.

    The kayak I built almost seven years ago just used ordinary PVA and it has shown no signs of any problems.

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