Thread: Stitch and Glue Kayak - question re puzzle joints

Welcome Mike - I'll watch with interest your progress. I'm about to build a larger craft and any clues you supply will, I'm sure, be of interest.

Sorry, I can't help with your questions.

soth

Originally Posted by mgstenhouse

But there's nothing about how best to tackle the puzzle joints. My concern is that the surface area is much smaller than in a scarf joint - I mean, it is just a puzzle shaped but-joint (plus I need to sand them all a bit to make them fit - right now they don't fit).
Do I need to reinforce the joint on the inner side with fibreglass tape and epoxy or will they be ok with just epoxy glueing?
[email protected]

Hi Mike, I'm in Canada and the boat I'm building is a dinghy, not a kayak or a kit. So I can't answer all your questions. But for what it's worth, my plans gave the option of scarf or butt joints on the long pieces - fibreglass & resin reinforced, both sides in both cases. Just for the hell of it I did scarfs on one side of the boat and butts on the other. Can't tell the difference apparent-strength-wise. One may be stronger than the other but they both seem more than adequate, even before they get stiffened up by stitching to the other panels. I would guess your puzzle joints will be very strong but should likely be taped & epoxied on at least one side (and the resin will fill any lack-of-fit spaces in the puzzle bits.) How will the exterior be finished? Epoxied fibreglass is fairly transparent but not really invisible. Maybe objectionable on the outside if you're a perfectionist about finishes. But you can cover it with crafty painted artwork!

I'm no expert but I'm learning - feel free to ask questions.

There's a really useful forum at
http://www.messing-about.com/forums
I'm building a B&B 12-foot Spindrift but not quite "according to specifications" - using a bilge board instead of the dagger-board. I'll also probably mess with the sail arrangement We'll see how it works!

Can't remember who said it but: "Its' only a boat; go ahead and build it."

Cheers & have fun with it.

Hi Edzell & Soth,

thanks for your replies. Edzell, your idea to tape one side of the puzzle joint is the advice I eventually received along with the delayed epoxy dispensing pumps from CapeBoatWorks (although CLC reckon you can do it without taping).

So, just before I do that I'm clearing up space in my garage. I will be cunningly fashioning a temporary 17 foot long bench to do the joints on. I figured I'd save my back and not attempt this on the floor. Actually I decided to do that when I saw on the plans that there is a slight curve in the long hull sides and realised I'd better take this a little more seriously and clamp the pieces in the correct position while glueing. Hell, I may even measure the gap at a few stations!

I'll post a pic once I've done the joints (regardless of outcome!).

Thanks for the link to the messing about site. The Spindrift looks like fun!

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike,

Good luck with the C17. I've recently made one from scratch, so have had the fun you did but without the puzzle joint issue )

If the join is in the middle of the kayak, you'll end up glassing both sides of the joint anyway - the epoxy in the join should hold it as the bend in the hull isn't too bad. Just be careful carrying/moving it around as this can cause enough stress to crack/break it.

The instructions should specify glassing the inside of the cockpit area, so this plus the outside glass should be sufficient to hold it. Once the deck is on and everything is glassed it's a pretty solid boat.

If you're not sure, email CLC or ask on their forum (available on their website) and either way you'll receive a quick reply from people who have been in the same position as you are now.

Looking forward to the pics. Feel free to email me if you have any questions on the c17 build, and good luck. It's a great boat to paddle.

Regards,
Darren

Hi Mike,

I recently completed a scratch built stitch and glue kayak (no plans - just made it up - 4.5 meters long & 65 cm beam). I've taken it out on the Brissie River over the past couple of weeks & all went well. The whole thing took 4 to 5 months working for a few hours on weekends. I used scarf joints & I've read that but joins need to be glassed on one side at least (as previous responses have indicated)

I learnt a lot during this construction & I intend to build another kayak in a year or two.

I'm looking forward to watching your progress.

Regards,

Don.

Hi Mike,

I asked a few people who have built CLC kits about the puzzle joints, and they all agree the normal boat glassing will be strong enough without taping the joint. But if you want extra stregth there's no reason not too - won't add huge amounts of weight to the final product.

Regards,
Darren

Originally Posted by TK1

Hi Mike,

I asked a few people who have built CLC kits about the puzzle joints, and they all agree the normal boat glassing will be strong enough without taping the joint. But if you want extra stregth there's no reason not too - won't add huge amounts of weight to the final product.

Regards,
Darren

the extra layer of glass at that point does create a slight bump which can be hard to get rid of, especially if clear or gloss finished...

Hi Mike,
I am in the same boat as you so to speak with regard to the puzzle joints on the CLC boats from Capeboatworks, I have found this thread particularly useful as I am about to start my project (a CLC double). As it would appear that you are a couple of weeks ahead of me I look forward to following your progress and would be grateful for any advice or tips that you post along the way.

Regards,

Ed

Hi Mike,
As I said earlier I too have commenced a CLC kit so I thought I would share my experiences thus far.

I have glued the puzzle joints with epoxy and then glassed over the inside of the join. This has given mixed results with some of the joins looking almost reasonable and others looking a bit shabby (but still seem to be strong). If you haven't done yours yet my advice is to spend some time getting the joints to fit, mine did not align properly when I got them and even after I sanded them I have a lot of space that will need filling before I glass it. Oooops I will get it right next time. I also found that the best joins were the ones that really needed to be forced and I did this with a rubber mallet then painted with unthickened epoxy, layed glass tape over it and epoxied again. I then put a layer of greaseproof paper on it and stacked every dive weight, car part, BBQ and heavy object on it for 24hrs. I am a first timer at this but it seems to have worked.

I have now wired the boat together and I am about to install the bulkheads but of course my kit didn't come with plans so I am waiting for the measurements to the bulkheads and deckbeams before I proceed any further.

As for your cabosil, I found that my local fiberglass dealer stocks West Systems epoxys and fillers including Filler 403 which is their version of Cabosil.

Anyway, I look forward to following your progress, let us know how you get on.

Ed

cab o sil is not the only choice ... you can get the WEST one (as ed suggested) the other option is the Bote Cote high strength glue powde which is a similar colour to gaboon ply from Boatcraft pacific.

As you say the surface area for the puzzle joins is the essential thing. We discussed that somwhere else and they need to be quite long to work. I would be very tempted to put glass tape on the inside or check CLC to see if they have experience of them.

Best wishes
Michael