Thread: Going co-planar crazy

In an ideal world the wheels should be coplanar........but none of the 3 different bandsaws I've used was even close, or could be completely adjusted to correct this.

Like you, I fretted over this for a while - until I noticed that the blades ran correctly on the crowns of the wheels, I could adjust for drift by small adjustments of the tracking on the top wheel, and the bandsaw(s) performed just fine. I haven't given the coplanar thing a thought since then.

G'day RSG. Reading your post, I remembered that I too had heard that the wheels don't need to be co-planar, in the 'Bandsaw Clinic' vid by Alex Snodgrass.

In fact, I haven't re-watched it yet, but I think he said that the wheels should not be co-planar, and that the blade should run between the crowns of the two wheels. Please correct me if I'm wrong - my memory isn't what it used to be. (Come to think of it, I don't think it ever was.) I'll have to watch it again myself.

Also, he recommends setting tracking so that the bottom of the blade gullets ride in the centre of the top wheel. I've been setting mine up that way for a year now, with great results and absolutely no drift. I was wary at first that the wheel rubbers would wear out more quickly, but they still look almost as good as new.

Anyway, here's the vid. It's well worth taking the time to watch it right through. He gives some pretty good tips.:



Edit: I also just added this video to the forums' new video library, under 'Instructional/Demonstrations'. It hasn't appeared yet, but I think that's because it needs to be vetted by a mod first.

That's the one Steve. Thanks muchly I recall that there was a whole bunch of tips in that vid that I wanted to try but couldn't for the life of me remember them.

Not knowing any better, I'd be pretty happy with the way my saw is setup at this stage; but I'm a stickler for "the rules" and needed to be sure before I faffed around setting the table up properly.

I'll have a double check with the vid and hopefully have ol' Bessie up and running tomorrow. I've got some old borer munched baltic pine floor boards that are crying out for me to resaw them for "rustic" pencil cases.

Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

That's the one Steve. Thanks muchly I recall that there was a whole bunch of tips in that vid that I wanted to try but couldn't for the life of me remember them.

Not knowing any better, I'd be pretty happy with the way my saw is setup at this stage; but I'm a stickler for "the rules" and needed to be sure before I faffed around setting the table up properly.

I'll have a double check with the vid and hopefully have ol' Bessie up and running tomorrow. I've got some old borer munched baltic pine floor boards that are crying out for me to resaw them for "rustic" pencil cases.

Good one. I thought it had to be that vid. It certainly helped get me on the right track.

Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

A while ago I had seen a really interesting video (that I can't find again) where some guy (I think from Carter products) was doing a demo to a group and during the setup of the saw said that having the wheels aligned wasn't really necessary (to a certain extent)...which totally goes against everything I've ever read. And yet he was producing fantastic cuts. I don't suppose anyone knows of (and can link me to) this video?

This is true. You don't need them to be coplanar, although it is preferable to have the blade sitting in roughly the same spot on both wheels. (BTW, this is also not 'necessary' in order to get a good cut.)

The absolute bare minimum necessities for a good RIP cut are:

• the blade should sit in the same spots on both tyres at all times during operation; ie. both under load and when free-wheeling.
• the blade should be correctly tensioned
• the table is adjusted so that it is perpendicular to the side of the blade. Ignore the table's protractor (I find they're generally useless except for "rough setting into the right ball park" anyway) and just use a good, known right-angle for this!
• If using a fence, eg. for ripping, use one that allows you to reset it to cater for blade drift. IMHO you're better of using a Point Fence anyway. (ie. basically just a timber wedge clamped on the gullet side of the table, with the 'V' point the desired cutting distance away from the teeth. I won't cover this in detail, it has been mentioned quite a bit in these forums already. )

For a good SCROLL cut (ie. fret work or radii):

• all of the above
• the table should also be square to the blade in the direction of the cut. This is the hardest thing to get set properly with non-planar wheels. Not worth worrying about when ripping, but when cutting tight curves it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! Otherwise the cut profile is more 'barley twist' than vertical, which sux big time after you've laboured half an hour following an intricate template. DAMHIKT.

Coplanarity (is that a word? ) is desirable in that it allows for simpler adjustments to how it cuts, in that making a single adjustment only affects one variable whereas non-planar wheels will often change two or more variables.

eg. adjusting the tension on a coplanar wheel shouldn't affect the cut once the blade is at minimum correct tension. Although overtensioning isn't good for the blade... However, on a non-planar wheel it may also alter the blade drift, so you really need to recheck every other setting after making just the one adjustment!

Basically it's a case of getting everything square & correct at the cutting face, then learning to work with what you've got. A lot like any other non-perfect tool, really.

You have clearly never tried to set up a Scheppach bandsaw.......

I'm just happy if I can get the blade perpenzontal to the table (is THAT a word?) Coplanarity is reserved for those posh buggers with their fancy bandsaws......

I have had the same problem with a similar saw although my alignment was worse. The toolamc looks similar to a Tiawanese bandsaw that I picked up a little while back. To get the wheels coplanar I had to loosen the bolts that hold the top part of the frame C section onto the base and move it a little. These bolts are on the same level as the saw table. That also ment knocking out a couple of roll pins that locate the two sections and drilling new holes once repositioned. Clamped a couple of straight lengths of RHS, positioned vertically, to the bottom wheel with one on either side of the wheels. Was able to adjust the C section and top wheel adjusters to get the wheels prety close to coplanar. Fininsed off by clamping a straight edge to each wheel horozontally and look from above to check for winding. When all was sweet and had cheched the saw while running drilled new holes for the roll pins and locked it in place.
Although these machines are made to a price there is no reason why they cant perform OK if well setup .

Cripes Tony!! The more I kept reading that, the louder the MacGyver theme song played in my head. Glad you got it sorted out in the end.

I've decided that my wheels are good enough...certainly much better than before...and have been going through the rest of the alignment tasks. With a little shimming here and there it's coming together nicely...except that this arvo I stripped the thread on the tension rod (which was halfway gone anyway) so now I'll have to fiddle around making a new one. I'll improve it by making it longer so it extends over the top of the chassis so I can get a better grip and bash my knuckles a bit less.

There's always something isn't there...

What I did isn't as complicated as it may sound. Glad to hear you are getting on top of your problems. Some sites say that a bandsaw can be set up to run without coplanar wheels but I believe that setup is much easier if the wheels are coplanar.
Tony

Watch that video. Not only does he say that the wheels do not need to be coplanar, but he also says that by following his method there should never be any drift!

Excellent video - probably the best I've seen on bandsaw setup


Thanks for posting.

Yeh it's a good one alright. Different than most other setup instructionals...easier...and great results.
Not sure how much the Carter guides have to do with the cut results but still good basic setup info.


Back to my problems now (me me me me me ME!!! )

This is more of a story than request for help, and I should probably create a new thread for this later after a bit more work and investigation...but once I got the saw setup and did all the crazy aligning of the table and post etc, I fired it up and was reminded of how violently the top half shook. So I stripped it right back...took EVERYTHING apart except for the stand...and worked my way up from the motor removing vibrations and testing it at each stage. Pulleys were loose, out of line, twisting belts, loose belts, overly tight belts, loose screws, loose bolts, wheel balancing...the works.

Now it's running a whole lot smoother...until I put a blade on. Then it starts doing its "front row at heavy metal concert" impression again. I've still got a few things to check and will give them a run through today. At the moment I can't do anything about the wheel rubbers or changing to linkage belts but I'll see how I go with a few more tweaks.

Infernal machines

Sounds like you've covered everything I can think of - wheels out of balance was my first thought, but you've tackled that.

If the problem only arises when a blade is fitted, could it be a bad join on the blade going clunk every time it passes through the guides? Do you have another blade to try? Of course, the other issue could be something moving when tension is applied (since it runs smooth with no blade and tension off).

The link belts are good at reducing vibration, but certainly quite an expenditure if it turns out they weren't needed 'cos the problem lies elsewhere.

OMG, I watched the video and setup my bandsaw. What a difference, I can resaw and it tracks parallel to the fence. I was coming so close to throwing out my bandsaw in frustration but i'm really happy with it now.

Cheers