Thread: Hafco BP-16A Upper guide twist

Hi All,

Can we please not turn this into a slanging match or "mine's better than your's". A made a decision when i bought my bandsaw and thats what i'm stuck with. It is capable of doing everything other inferior and superior bandsaws do, but it just needs a little tuning. This is why this thread was started to help others with similar problems. I dont really care who owns what or what they think of BP16A. I like it and it was within the budget I had.

So back to solving the monir problems it has.

Thanks

Michael.

Fair enough. For the record, the Jet 14" sells for about $100 less than the BP16A, and the 18" Jet is a smidgen under $2000. (Northwood tools prices) I think you do get what you pay for, and the BP16A delivers some solid construction and a decent motor.

The 14" saws are often a lot better for driving small blades, and if that's what you need, they are great. On the other hand, if you want to rip some solid timber, the 1hp motor will struggle. Normally, you would step up from the 14" to a 2hp 17" or 18" model, and the dollars go well over $1000 - even the H&F 17" is $1550. At a little over $800 the BP16A straddles those segments at a pretty good price in my opinion. Of course, it could always be better, and many of the problems we hear on this forum could be avoided with a bit of quality control at the factory.

So, when you buy the Jet, you pay for a higher quality finished product. You're also paying for some very nice ads in the WW press, and worldwide marketing of an international brand. You also pay extra for the final fit and tuning from the factory, but at the end of the day, once setup the BP16A is a very good bandsaw. It runs smooth, and it will drive big blades through hard timber that would have the Jet 14" crying for it's mummy in the corner.

You pays your money and you takes your chances, depending on your needs and willingness to deal with problems.
For me, that's what the hobby is all about.

woodbe.

By the way Designsync, I am not trying to be a smart@rse but, the thrust bearing is the one at the back of the blade and not the guides at the side of the blade.

John H, mate, yes I do know that. I'm almost offended, but have thick skin . As already mentioned (not very well obviously), the thrust bearing can be rotated to horizontal but won't work. Peters quote was 'if this is the case rotating the bearing away from vertical will fix the problem'. And my response was no, it won't fix the problem.

Your post is written very well. Infact so well Jet may even give you a salespersons role.

FYI, I'm more than happy with my BP16A - does everything I ask of it.

it seems that Jet also has It's teething problems. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=38824

I must admit, I have been pretty interested in everybodies comments. Just to add even though I had to make some adjustments to my BP, I am still happy with my purchase.

Just for the record, the machine cut reasonably well straight out of the box and in hindsight, it I had taken a backstep and just adjusted the top wheel it may have been the only adjustment required.

At the end of the day I have no issues with what I did.


Squirrel.

McChardy - Michael - it was not my intention to commence a slanging match or trying to say that mine is better than yours. There are many pieces of woodworking equipment and advocates for all of them. You will probably find that most also have some problem that needs attention. That is why there are warranties.

Indeed if you look back you will see that I actually entered this thread a while ago with what I considered to be a constructive suggestion addressing the problem then being discussed.

As my previous post indicated, I have no interest in BP16A bandsaws (and for the record I am not interest in retailing Jet products ) however I have been keeping an eye on the thread, as many others obviously have.

But what got me into the discussion, at this time, were comments like

Originally Posted by Designsync

But, it is chaiwenese (typical plastic handles etc) - same as all 14" & 16" saws around the same price.

and

Originally Posted by woodbe

You can pay a little bit more and just get more of the same, quality wise. If you want a lot better, you have to spend at least 2-3 times the money and get into one of the low end european machines or similar.woodbe.

To me that sort of comment is a generalisation which should not be posted on the forum. If Designsync and Woodbe have specific knowledge of problems with "all 14" & 16" saws" or can back up that "If you want a lot better, you have to spend at least 2-3 times the money" then they should come out and detail their knowledge. Otherwise don't make that sort of generalised comment.

I think that you will find that, at no time in my post, have I criticised a BP16A that is operating as specified. What I have said, and used the Jet bandsaw as my personal example, is that you should be able to expect that the equipment you buy (for around $600 to $900) should be fully functional when unpacked and assembled.

In reply to the questions raised by Matrix, I purchased one Jet around 3 years ago for under $600, the Deluxe last year for $625 and the riser kit for $100. I am aware that the list prices are generally higher now, but I was lucky.

My question about blade size was addressed more to the smaller sized blades and not the larger. I really can't see myself needing wider than 3/4", but if your needs are towards the 1" blade then you obviously have to purchase a suitable machine.

And yes, I am aware that many products are manufactured in China. But my experience indicates that it depends on whether the manufacture was to specification in a well supervised company owned facility, or whether a generic manufacturing process was involved.

As for Designsync's response to my comment about the thrust bearing, I apologise. Unfortunately I read your post

Originally Posted by Designsync

What can I say.... ....the thrust bearing rotates (actually screws) in and out depending on blade thickness and must run vertical as shown.

as refering to the side guides screwing in and out on the sides of the blade and not forward or backwards depending upon the width of the blade.

Hammo, I could be wrong, but if you read through the posts in the thread you refered to, it appears that the particular bandsaw may have been second hand. Others have probably had problems with Jet equipment, but I am not aware of any detail that I can elaborate.

I feel that the BP16A owners have a good thread going here and I hope that you continue to assist each other without drawing generalised comparisons.

Hijacking the thread for a minute.

Martrix I am interested in reading what you post, but are you aware that your posts (and they are the only ones that I am aware of) overlap the width of the screen and I have to scroll sideways to read them.

Is anybody else having this problem. Is there a solution for Martrix or for me (be kind if answering the second alternative).

To me that sort of comment is a generalisation which should not be posted on the forum. If Designsync and Woodbe have specific knowledge of problems with "all 14" & 16" saws" or can back up that "If you want a lot better, you have to spend at least 2-3 times the money" then they should come out and detail their knowledge. Otherwise don't make that sort of generalised comment.

I think that you will find that, at no time in my post, have I criticised a BP16A that is operating as specified. What I have said, and used the Jet bandsaw as my personal example, is that you should be able to expect that the equipment you buy (for around $600 to $900) should be fully functional when unpacked and assembled.

Baxter, I did look at various machines, both here in Adelaide and carefully reading manufacturer's sites and comments on forums like this before I plonked down my money, and I stand by what I said. If you want a lot better machine, you have to pay a lot more money. The emphasis is on LOT. A Jet saw might be better than a H&F saw, but it is not a LOT better. A saw from that Italian mob (ACM?) like the Hammer is a LOT better, and it costs a LOT more.

I can't justify a lot more money, but if I could, I'd have a Hammer bandsaw in a heartbeat.

At the $600 to $900 end of the market (it's about as low as you can reasonably go without buying a toy), everything seems to be chiwanese. In the case of the Jet, it's generally a little dearer than other very similar machines, and without repeating what I have already said, you get what you pay for, and some of what you get is marketing, and some of what you get is perhaps a higher degree of final tune on the product.

For the record, my saw worked straight out of the box, just as you suggest it should. What it didn't do straight out of the box I would never have known about if I had not read Lonnie Bird's book and explored this forum which specifically deals with fine tuning the saw (actually, just about any saw) That information was how to get the last 10% out of it. I would never have found out about better blades, coplaner wheel setup, etc etc if I hadn't visited here and read the book. This is all knowledge that every bandsaw operator will benefit from, and probably need at some point, regardless if they have a BP16, Jet or Hammer saw.

My point has always been is that if you want better than the 14" saws, it's a big jump to the next level dollar wise, but the BP16A lets you leg up into a useful size saw if you want to do some heavier work for very little extra money.

I'm happy to continue discussing this, but I'm also mindfull that this thread is about someone else's problem. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject, there's plenty of BP16A's represented here, and I'm sure there are other opinions too.

woodbe

Baxter, I don't think anyone will shoot you down for speaking your mind.

The real point as I see it is that with any tool/product you will get your good,bad and ugly. The BP16As are just as lucky there than any other saw.

I'm sure that there are just as many Jet owners out there with problems etc.

I agree, if you have to change the design like elongating holes, it's a warranty job BUT there are those out there that would rather tinker and fix/improve their machines.

This thread is not only about the "tweaking"/possible warranty stuff it's about the journey.

The journey, isn't that what woodworking is about, not just making stuff but learning, experienceing, growing as people ?

I'm pleased that these guys have the goolies to stand up and say that they have a problem. Then move past that and find a solution that others could benefit from.

So baxter, feel free to drop by anytime and participate in the thread if you feel so inclined, I for one will be happy to see you here.

Hi All,

Now that we have all the formalities out of the way can we get back to solving the problems/tuning of the BP16A. As in my previous posts about the upper guide twist and how I thought I had solved it and how the lock nut hole does not line up with the shaft guide.

Is this a warranty claim or is it something we have to live with.

Michael.

Hi All,

Just spoke to H&F about the Upper guide twist problem and I gather they already knew about it. The guy I spoke to seemed to know that the shaft V grove was not in line with the lock nut hole. They have offered to replace it. He did mention that it was cheap chinese c%&p. The other option he suggested was to re-machine the grove.

Michael.

Michael,

My final test to confirm that the original shaft in mine was twisted was to remove the 2 grub screws, knock out the winding mechanism (cog) and remove the housing. Let me apologise if that isn't the correct terminology, but you should now be left with a shaft only.

Now put the shaft in a vice with the gear teeth facing down to the ground and the grub screw slot facing up. Get the smallest level you own and balance it along the grub screw slot. This will show weather or not the shaft is twisted or the grub screw slot hasn't been machined straight.

Hope this helps.

Hi All,

Spent last night giving the B/S a through going over. I removed the table, Blade, upper bearing guide and the shaft it winds up and down on. Then I started with the lower wheel and made sure it was Level both Vertical and horizontal. The backing plate that it is mounted on is hard up against the back panel of the Saw. So there is no room for any more adjustment inwards. The upper wheel was next.

After making sure the wheels were running vertically upright. I checked the wheels to see if they were co-planar. The top wheel was about 8 to 10mm inset from the bottom wheel. This meant i would have to pack the top wheel out that much as I had no room left to move the bottom wheel in any further. So I took the top wheel off and put 2 large washers in behind it and put the wheel back on and tighten up the nut, which by the way only had about 10mm of thread left on it to attach the nut. After doing this the top wheel was still about 2-3mm out. If I but another washer behind the wheel I wont have enough thread left to do up the nut.

Any suggestions or is 2-3mm acceptable.

Michael.

p.s. I'm off the H&F at lunch to pick up a new Upper Bearing guide shaft assembly. Not only did the old one twist but it had slight curving in it as well.

Hi Michael

Are you checking the co-planer between the wheels with the blade on and with a bit of tension? If not I would do that before I started packing out the top wheel with washers as the difference may then exceed the available thread.

As a matter of interest, are the wheel rubbers crowned or flat. If flat then the co-planer factor may not be as relevant because some manufacturers recommend that for wide blades the teeth are actually off the tyre on flat wheels.

Also understand that co-plainning is best tested when a wider blade is under tension.

If you haven't gone to lunch yet I would raise this question with H&F while you are there.

Originally Posted by baxter

Are you checking the co-planer between the wheels with the blade on and with a bit of tension? If not I would do that before I started packing out the top wheel with washers as the difference may then exceed the available thread.

Baxter is on the money. You need to check for coplanar when the wheels are under normal tension with the blade on and the blade running in the middle of the wheels, and you should be able to adjust it sufficiently on the bottom wheel with out adding washers to the top.

If you haven't already, have a read of this thread for adjusting the BP-16A for coplanar.