Thread: "Industrial/Taiwan" Bandsaws

They all look the same but there are small differences that cant been seen online or in a catalog.
The larger JET's are mile ahead of the house brands I've seen so far and the Hammer4400 is a supposedly quality machine.
Like all tools you get what you pay for...

BTW, not trying to poke anyone in the eye, just shopping around for a decent, reliable machine.

The 14" Jet with riser just copped a raspberry in a FWW comparo btw. Wheels not aligned and couldn't be even with shimming.

But to the question: my experience with Chinese cheap lathes (and that's where most cheap machinery comes from now, not Taiwan) is that a Western wholesaler will contract with a Chinese assembler who sources bits from various makers. The makers copy designs from the West but make to a price and often the lowest price. So the various components that go into apparently similar machines can vary in quality.

It appears that for some machines they'll come out of the same factory but with different brands and paint jobs. Jet have the quality control folk crawling over the outputs so you pay the extra and get something supposedly in spec.

Most of these machines are pretty reliable with the exception of the cheapest lathes (MC900s at $299) and jointer/thicknessers (MLC392s) but they will require some fettling.

As to sawing through 4 to 5" thickness the saws you mention should be fine. It pays though to get a quality ripping blade from Henry Bros in Sydney (eg. a 3/4 x 2 tpi); designed for our hard woods, it will cost about $28 + shipping.

Hope this helps.

I spent some time in Taiwan back in 1998 and got a look into a factory making table saws. I imagine that what i saw then is pretty much how it's done in the PRC now. Basically they build to a price, and can run batches of crap or batches of less crappy.

The variables include:

bearings (both supplier and grade and q.c.)

castings (q.c. is big here...voids and warps are not rejects, just get assigned to the batch of real crap machines). Metal is a big thing that we take for granted...they don't. You can get cast iron from proper Meehanite foundries or luck of the draw pot metal, just depends on many factors not limited to $$. I have seen some castings from china that were mostly filler and enamel**paint.

**I had a piece of brightly enameled Chinese machinery here once. The paint was removed with one swipe of a rag with thinners.

motors and switch gear...money talks, bullsh*t arcs

pulleys, belts, bolts. $$buys better quality, cheap buys items that wouldn't pass q.c. normally, including those odd sized bolts made from hardened tin.

balancing of rotating components...occurs on the highest priced* machines only.

guides, fences, fit 'n' finish....again, installed according to price*

blades are uniformly poor, and are only there to complete the illusion.

*price means the money the factory gets, which does not always equate to the price tag here. The factory guide that I had (mutual friend of the factory owner and my boss) said that the factory's cost difference between "garbage" and "pretty good" was only a few dollars, but the difference between machines was night and day.

Those big name brands have in-house q.c. and are priced accordingly. The buyers that sign on for a few hundred machines in their own house colour can spec to order, but these machines are often inconsistent in quality and value. I have seen many objects that look just like bandsaws that would have been pretty awful to own.

After all is said and done, you want a bandsaw to be straight and strong, enough to tension a usable blade without deforming. You need a good tensioning device with a good spring. You want the wheels to be (mostly) co-planar, or be adjustable to that condition. If the saw lacks these attributes its junk, and not worth your time. Bearings, motors and switches can all be upgraded, as can guides, fences and dust collection. You need to ask yourself how much money you are willing to spend on a "fixer-upper", and how critical all of this, or any of it, is to you and your work.

Originally Posted by rsser

The 14" Jet with riser just copped a raspberry in a FWW comparo btw. Wheels not aligned and couldn't be even with shimming.

Or as we saw a little while ago in another thread, the motor not even wired up..........

Originally Posted by rsser

It appears that for some machines they'll come out of the same factory but with different brands and paint jobs. Jet have the quality control folk crawling over the outputs so you pay the extra and get something supposedly in spec.

Those QC people are obviously not overpaid.........


It is interesting to see how often the Jet machines, of whatever type, fail to get the top marks in FWW (and other magazines) comparisons.

They are often out ranked by the cheaper General and Grizzly machines.

Like that white paint though!

They look schmick true ... but after a green woodturning session on a Jet lathe ...

Not meaning to step on anyone's toes, but Jet equipment is not nearly as well-regarded over here as it seems to be in some quarters of Oz. Just a good (or sometimes only fairly good) mid-range machine. Another case of a brand that had higher quality at one time but has started sliding downhill.

Originally Posted by fatty500

After a bit of searching the usual websites, I've noticed most outlets have their own badged copy of the "Made in Taiwan" BS. Does anyone know if they're all the same (guides, fence, table, motor). The prices are +/- by more than $200, and apart from the wheels, the features appear to be the same.
eg, 17", H&F $1450 (iron wheels), CTech $1695 (iron wheels), Leda $1683 (but alloy wheels).
Obviously, if they're all the same, I'd go for the cheapest badge. Is it true that these Taiwan BS are copies of the Jet equivalent (same factory etc).

Also, are these machines good value? (mostly for resawing 4" and 5"). And how do they compare with a Metabo 505, or a Hammer 4400, both around $1K more.

Thanks,


Fatty

While many Bandsaws look the same from a distance, most of the important parts are not common to each. Thats why some are simply better than others but this is difficult for the untrained to make a proper assessment.
I suggest you have a serious look at the Woodfast Models BS-350 and BS-500 and with confidence and back up support.

Regards
Woodfast Aust
www.woodfast.com.au

Woodfast, you've made this point a number of times and it would be helpful to prospective purchasers if you outlined in what respect they're better.

QC? Bearings? Guide sets? Motor windings? What exactly?

thanks guys,
I'll keep your comments in mind when deciding what to get, particularly Greg's last paragraph. Though, still not sure if I should shell out more for quality, or buy the cheapest (nastiest?), BS. I guess that's for me to figure out.

A crude rule of thumb fatty is that the Taiwanese built stuff appears often to be better than Chinese - if you can find it.

Trouble is that there's a huge worldwide market among occasional users who are more sensitive to price than to quality (or who don't know or can't judge quality). How many posts about workshop machines do you read on this forum that actually include people's measurements of whether their new toy is in spec or not?

Originally Posted by rsser

Woodfast, you've made this point a number of times and it would be helpful to prospective purchasers if you outlined in what respect they're better.

QC? Bearings? Guide sets? Motor windings? What exactly?

Thanks rsser.

Info on motor windings, switch internals and bearing quality is near impossible to report on even by Importers / Agents and most machine manufacturers.
The visual working bits are a bit easier.
The work Table should be as large as you can get and have a ground surface finish rather than a rougher milled finish.
For best table support, look for one that offers a solid cast tilting Trunnion Support rather than the sheeetmetal types.
Main wheels are better if they are heavy cast iron and balanced rather than lighter weight aluminium.
Wheel rubbers must have convexed (camber) outer shape for good blade tracking.
Blade support bearings where the outer diameter of the bearings run against the blade provide long guide life, good blade support and run quietly.
Support bearings that are positioned so the whole flat surface of the bearings run against the blade are more noisy and do not last as long. This type of roller guide is not well suited for most DIY valued Bandsaws.
Choose maximum Hp motor your budget can afford along with a machine that offers two cutting speeds. Ideal for when cutting thicker Aussie hardwoods.
A good easy to use Rip Fence with a Rip cutting Post can be handy for long cutting work.
If workshop space is limited, consider a machine with mobile base wheels.
Visually, such a machine should look to have a strong outer casing with clean angle foldings and high quality inner welding. It then comes down to value for money with overall specifications in mind.
Hope this helps a bit.

Woodfast Aust
www.woodfast.com.au

Originally Posted by rsser

Woodfast, you've made this point a number of times and it would be helpful to prospective purchasers if you outlined in what respect they're better.

QC? Bearings? Guide sets? Motor windings? What exactly?

Paint job?

IMHO the BS500 Woodfast is a lot better in many ways than my saw... even tho they are the same basis... from a distance!

Just to reinforce my opinion above about the JET machines... its the 18"+ machines Im referring too not the little toys!