Thread: Table Bowed on new H&F BP-305 [among other things]

Tell them it's bent. send them the photo. Tell them to ship a new one AFTER they have checked it for flatness.

Originally Posted by Avery

Tell them it's bent. send them the photo. Tell them to ship a new one AFTER they have checked it for flatness.

Yeah, I guess if I show the pic, I might not have to send the dud back at my expense. I'm just used to that being the case with most transactions elsewhere.

I can handle the other, relatively minor, hassles, but this one pi55ed me off a little.

It would seem that it is not unusual for cast iron tables on these things to be warped. We have had 2 at the local Men's Shed and I know of at least 2 others, these were all CarbaTec saws and were replaced without question - although it took some weeks to get them. I would imaging H&F will be a similar story.

We can see the light alright! hopefully so will they.

There is no argument - item for sale must be fit for purpose - otherwise it could become a consumer affairs issue. If they buck up, then the CA people can be very helpful.

On the other hand, this is a customer relations exercise for them and, if they deal with it well, could increase the likelihood of you dealing with them again.
They could eg pay to have it flattened local to you, rather than all the extra freighting around.

Good luck with it, insist on a serviceable product.

Cheers,
Paul McGee

Originally Posted by Avery

It would seem that it is not unusual for cast iron tables on these things to be warped. We have had 2 at the local Men's Shed and I know of at least 2 others, these were all CarbaTec saws and were replaced without question - although it took some weeks to get them. I would imaging H&F will be a similar story.

Although I've never dealt with them before, they have a great reputation, so I'll see what they say.

I can see how they might warp and release pressure when the slot is cut for blade entry. It's worst along that line.

Meantime, while it's being sorted out, I'll cut some 3/4" chipboard to size and clamp it with appropriate shims to sit flat, so there's no rocking. Can't use the rip fence or mitre guide then, though.

Definitely push your case for a replacement. This is not acceptable and as already stated they have to sell goods fit for purpose.

I have purchased an item from them in Victoria and insisted that before delivery it was to be checked over by their techs. This was done without argument and everything was OK!

Originally Posted by pmcgee

We can see the light alright! hopefully so will they.

There is no argument - item for sale must be fit for purpose - otherwise it could become a consumer affairs issue. If they buck up, then the CA people can be very helpful.

On the other hand, this is a customer relations exercise for them and, if they deal with it well, could increase the likelihood of you dealing with them again.
They could eg pay to have it flattened local to you, rather than all the extra freighting around.

Good luck with it, insist on a serviceable product.

Cheers,
Paul McGee

Thanks, Paul. I'll ring them Monday morning, and back up the call with an email with the pic attached.

Meantime, I could use the rip fence and mitre guide if I just route straight slots in the chipboard. (Cant do the fancy ones with my Dremel router bits).

Originally Posted by Mulgabill

I have purchased an item from them in Victoria and insisted that before delivery it was to be checked over by their techs. This was done without argument and everything was OK!

Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.

Originally Posted by Hermit

Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.

No need to pay extra, it is a part of their Quality Control and pre-delivery testing.
If you have their 2012 catalogue, have a read if their Profile inside the front cover. I assume it was also in previous years editions as well. Point that out to them as well!!!!!

Also read Clause 9 under Trading Conditions on their web site http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/FAQs/Legal-Privacy#241

Originally Posted by Mulgabill

No need to pay extra, it is a part of their Quality Control and pre-delivery testing.
If you have their 2012 catalogue, have a read if their Profile inside the front cover. I assume it was also in previous years editions as well. Point that out to them as well!!!!!

Also read Clause 9 under Trading Conditions on their web site Legal & Privacy | machineryhouse.com.au

Isn't clause 9 about "Personal Property Securities Act"?


There's this: (iv) the continued use of any Goods after any defect becomes apparent or would have become apparent to a reasonably prudent operator or user
Technically, I can't use it at all for now. Probably best if I don't. I can wait. Hopefully not too long after Monday.


I don't have this year's catalogue and haven't been into woodworking long enough to have a previous one, but found this on their site: - 2012 Sydney warehouse moves closer to its showroom & into a large 4500 square metre warehouse with new storage facilities to meet the expansion of Handling, Testing, Quality control, Quicker despatches & Pick ups

Quality Control? Testing? This saw could not have been tested. The blade was snagging that little bracket as mentioned. In the box, it couldn't possibly have been knocked and bent. If it had been tested, too, the other problems wouldn't have existed.

Anyway, it'll sort out on Monday.

The upper LHS blade guide doesn't adjust in far enough, either, and runs out of thread 0.5mm away from the blade. The bracket has slots, but they're at the adjustment limit. I was going to file the slots out longer for more adjustment, so the guide adjusters were more central, but better not do that for now, either. The whole thing might be going back yet.

This is definitely not the best bandsaw in the world. Not yet, anyway. Takes a bit of the fun out of getting a new toy.

On reflection, 'testing' probably usually means tuning and testing one from each batch, or one before buying a batch.

Originally Posted by Hermit

Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.

Sorry Steve should have been Clause 10. Defects, Warranties and Returns, Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA)

Originally Posted by Mulgabill

Sorry Steve should have been Clause 10. Defects, Warranties and Returns, Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA)

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks, Russell.

You're right. Luckily here in Oz we have pretty comprehensive inherent implied warranties. (That was a mouthful.)

I'm not really concerned that they won't make it good. I'm sure they will. Quickly, I hope.
I'm not worried, either, about complaining about the other, lesser problems. I'd sort of prefer to sort them out myself. Then I know it's done properly and just how I want it.

Thanks again for your help, Russell.

I was thinking of writing a review on this machine in a few weeks after a bit of use, but I think I've already said enough on the subject.

I'll still write one on the Scheppach oscillating spindle sander, though. It's a beauty and gave absolutely no trouble. Works like a dream. Just can't cut anything out on the bandsaw to sand with it yet.

Back to the compound mitre saw or hand saws for now.....

Just a thought could it have been dropped?
Regards

Originally Posted by A Duke

Just a thought could it have been dropped?
Regards

G'day Hugh. Possibly, but I doubt it. Cast iron doesn't usually bend without breaking..
I hope they don't try to say I dropped it!
I'm already wondering how I'm gonna get it back to them. I'll have to get a courier to pick it up, I guess - don't have a car to take it anywhere.

Edit: Been doing some reading: -

Why Castings Warp
When a cast part cools from the molten state, thinner areas tend to cool faster than thicker areas and the differential cooling and shrinking sets up unbalanced, residual stresses in the solid metal. When part of the metal is machined away the stresses can become even more unbalanced and the part will warp from the stress.
Apparently most of the warping occurs within the first year after cooling, so some manufacturers age their castings for a year before machining. However, it is expensive to store castings for a year rather than sell them right away, so many manufacturers skip this step. Even when they do age the castings, machining away stressed metal can cause further warping.

Much like timber, it seems.

Comes from here: - Flattening Warped Machine Tables using Shims
(I don't intend to shim this one, but it's interesting anyway and might help someone else in the future.)