Thread: Table Bowed on new H&F BP-305 [among other things]

I have a small bench top Band Saw and unfortunately it uses HOBBY blades, which are very thin and flex everywhere when cutting . So I know what you are talking about, If parts are vibrating loose some thing may be out of balance,

I would check your blade tension, and look at the grain, these can cause the blade to drift.

Jeff
vk4

Originally Posted by vk4

I have a small bench top Band Saw and unfortunately it uses HOBBY blades, which are very thin and flex everywhere when cutting . So I know what you are talking about, If parts are vibrating loose some thing may be out of balance,

I would check your blade tension, and look at the grain, these can cause the blade to drift.

Jeff
vk4

Tension is fine, I think Jeff. With the upper guide set at the top, a firm sideways push with my thumb deflects the blade about 1/4".

The grain is pretty straight and even, and the problem has been identical on 3 different pieces of timber, so I don't think it's the grain.
When I do the next tests, with the new blade, if I do still have the problem I'll try the timber from both sides and if it's the grain, the blade should drift left instead of right when I turn it around.

Have you seen this one? Band Saw Stabilizer® by Carter Products
I am going to get one.

BTW the sparky didn't turn up
Fantastic weather for fishing so he called in sick
Now they have promised to come on Tuesday.

NOT HAPPY JAN!!
Wolffie

I know a SPARKY who isn't going to get a 6 pack, for turning up on time!!

Jeff

Originally Posted by Wolffie

Have you seen this one? Band Saw Stabilizer® by Carter Products
I am going to get one.

BTW the sparky didn't turn up
Fantastic weather for fishing so he called in sick
Now they have promised to come on Tuesday.

NOT HAPPY JAN!!
Wolffie

I don't think the stabiliser will fit on mine and if it does, it takes away too much vertical height clearance for me. I have 7" cutting depth and need 7" cutting depth. Either way, for now I want it working properly without add-ons, as it's supposed to.

Delays, delays, delays. That's my experience with H&F. I've been trying to sort this out for weeks now and it's obviously going to drag on for at least another week or two. It's way past time they sent a serviceman out to me, but they haven't.
You're not happy? I'm going crazy trying to get this sorted so I can get on with my work.

Two bandsaw blades just arrived from H&F - very fast delivery.
A shame one of them is for someone else's saw! Wrong length. Mine are 2240mm, this is 1778.
At least the 3TPI is the right length, so I can try my tests again later.
I wasn't expecting two free blades anyway, so I'll have to post the other one back.

Glad to hear you got a new blade. Hope it works! Fingers crossed.

Bret

Steve,

is it worth going to local mens shed and asking someone there to come have a look?
I know when I got mine (a month ago) I was lucky it had all been set up by previous owner.
I did read then manual but when I changed blades I had to set it all up again.
I was lucky as our club has exactly the same model so I got some there to show all the things I needed to know and the right order to do things in as well.

I'm thinking of going to H&F this morning for a 12 inch bench disc sander.
I'll have a look and see what the deal is.
I have a little 6 inch that goes with my belt (aldi special).
Be nice to have that solid deck and more work area.
Peter

Hi Steve,

We'll be very interested to know how the new blade works out.

As I said in the email, I think it'd be a good idea first of all to put aside your best wood - hurting it will just be annoying - and get some various scraps, starting with some pine and see which work and where the trouble starts.

I didn't say ... do you know the speed your blade is running at?
Is there more than one pulley option with the V-belt?

I just tried some 4" tall jarrah through my very chinese 2ndhand 14".
It has only had the blade it came with - 6tpi, 1/4" - which is not flash.

It isn't easy. 1st time through came out bellied, and I wasn't holding the piece onto the fence strongly enough.

Then I checked and adjusted up the guides - just plastic box-shaped with a small wingnut. It came out better, straight at the start + a bit bellied by the end.

Then I planed off the bottom and fence faces flat, and tried again. Not too bad, not perfect. I notice now that my table insert is a mm or so lower than the table ... where's my hammer?

Just checking/reminding - you need the upper guides to be lowered close to the workpiece - I have forgotten sometimes with the big bandsaw.

Also - waxing the table helps you push the piece along smoothly, but watch out for hands slipping into/near the blade.

If your wood is squared up, you could try another low - maybe just 2cm - fence on the rhs of the blade so the piece is railroaded past the blade with no movement left or right. That will show up if the blade is tracking offline, and you'll want to watch for that and go the STOP button if the blade takes itself too far off to one side.

I'm thinking that the new blade may make a big difference - I think it would help mine. If there's still no luck I'll try to video mine.

Cheers,
Paul

Those guides look very similar to the ones I had on my Elektra Beckum. They didn't do a fantastic job for me either. Replaced them with carter guides a few weeks back. There's a thread a few down from this one if you're interested in how I fit the new guides on.

I'm not suggesting this will fix your problem but it certainly helped me. The guides cost over 200 including the shipping but in my case I wasn't dealing with a new saw, but an older inherited one that needed modifying. I hadn't bought the saw so it was easier to justify.
I also use my saw for rip cutting almost exclusively, and I really couldn't put a narrow blade on with these guides so it might not be the best fit solution. The main thing I'm getting at is those guides were a problem for me so maybe they're doing you no favours either.

For what it's worth, the lower guide on your saw seems to have some kind of u shaped piece surrounding the blade going up above the guide blocks on either side of the blade, almost like a protective sheath. Mine doesn't have that but if it did I'd imagine sawdust would fill it very quickly. Is it removable? It may be the cause of your sawdust build up problem.

Originally Posted by vk4

I know a SPARKY who isn't going to get a 6 pack, for turning up on time!!

Jeff

YEP

eisbaer, $200 for guides is way out of my league, even if they do help. That's half the cost of the bandsaw. Think H&F would cover it?
That little metal guard thing you mentioned is a PITA. It makes it impossible to see the lower guide blocks when adjusting the assembly forward/backward, to keep the blocks just clear of the blade gullets under load.

After struggling to get the new blade adjusted up properly, I had to pull everything apart to smooth the grub-screw marks from the sides of the guides and top thrust bearing rod, because they wouldn't slide smoothly for adjustment and the grub screws keep dropping into the old marks. Took the extrusion and table off, then when I started to undo the single M6 bolt holding the lower guides in place, the whole assembly swung sideways, pivoting from below. I took it off, and was surprised to find that it all hangs on a short plate that only swings off the frame by one M6 bolt as well, which wasn't properly tightened. Bad engineering, I reckon. If the blade is ever bumped the whole shebang can swing sideways.
Hard to align perfectly with the blade, too, when tightening.

The plate: -
Attachment 211502


With guides held in place - note that these are only held by one bolt too, and can swivel sideways a bit, making the whole assembly pretty unstable: -
Attachment 211503


Next, while removing the actual guide blocks from the bracket, I noticed that the whole cast alloy guide bracket is distorted or bent. (Looks like it was cast that way.)
The part holding the blocks is bent upwards from the base by several degrees.
I don't know if this affects performance. You can just see it in the pic, but it looks worse in real life: -
Attachment 211504


This is the buildup on the lower guide that I mentioned, which quickly starts to jam the blade. The other lower guide has no problem, only this one: -
Attachment 211515


Paul, it is a good idea to get some pine. As mentioned in my email, I'll try to do that on Tuesday, (payday).
Regarding blade speed, (glad you mentioned it), mine is a two speed, pulley and belt tension selected, 372m/min and 802m/min, set on 802. Too fast?
On the subject of keeping the upper guides close to the workpiece, everything I've seen says 1/4", the label on my new blade says 3mm, but thanks to the guard in front of the blade, if I want to see where my cut is to start, I need a minimum 10mm. Any lower and I can't start cuts accurately, close to the line. I can't consider removing or modifying it until the machine is proven to be working properly. Same goes for that other little metal guard referred to by eisbaer.
Table is already waxed and slick. Even when I got it, this one was much smoother than the first. I couldn't wipe the first one down with paper towel without leaving shreds all over the table.

Finally, I've already showed Paul, but for everyone else, here's a pic of the cut from the original 6TPI blade. Too rough?: -
Attachment 211506

Any comments on the pics are welcome. You all know more than I do.
Is this thing ever likely to work well without rebuilding properly? If not, I'd rather be done with it and tell H&F to take it away now, without wasting more time. I keep wondering what I'll find next.

Here's a better pic of the bent/distorted guide bracket, showing it more clearly, bent upwards: -
Attachment 211519

Also, just noticed that, on the same bracket, the hole for the lower thrust bearing rod is oval-shaped, allowing the rod to slop around heaps when the screw isn't tightened. I don't know for sure if this would affect it when the screw is tight, but this is the thrust bearing that comes loose under load and moves well away from the blade.
Attachment 211520

Hermit,

Have you spoken to H&F about the guide being out of square, ??

The cut from the 6tpi blade is shocking, something is radically wrong there, you should not have those deep grooves from the cut.

I have been cutting some 120mm Camphor Laural , and I am using a6tpi, and the surface is far better than yours..

Jeff