Thread: Table Bowed on new H&F BP-305 [among other things]

Originally Posted by Hermit

.
You're not happy? I'm going crazy trying to get this sorted so I can get on with my work.

No Steve, I am not happy.
I haven't had a chance to do any woodworking at all since 2 Feb. 2011 when our workshop was ripped apart.
AND I STILL DON'T.
You have only spent a couple of weeks, we have spent over 15 months.

I have just looked at the specs for the saw you bought.
I doubt whether that saw would be capable of doing what you are expecting it to do
A 3tpi blade is a ripping blade, the less tpi the coarser the cut.
The 6 tpi, 6.5 mm blade would probably do the nicer cut for you. However, controlling drift is a learning curve that takes some time to get right.
Took us about 6 months to get to know our first band saw and get it working the way we wanted it to. It is rarely a matter of just buying it, starting it up and away you go.

I reckon H&F have been very accomodating with you, it has probably cost them more to help you than the saw is worth, so don't complain about their customer service.

Sorry to be a stick-in-the-mud but that's how it is.
You get what you pay for, we have suffered the consequences of that many times in our lives.

Wolffie

Originally Posted by Wolffie

I doubt whether that saw would be capable of doing what you are expecting it to do
Wolffie

What's the point of an advertised 7" cutting depth if the saw isn't even capable of cutting 4"?

I started with a 6TPI blade as you recommend - H&F recommended the 3TPI for the purpose and paid for it and sent it as being more suited to the purpose. Go argue with them, you love them so so much. You've piped up so many times now saying how wonderful H&F are.

You say you get what you pay for - true, but here in Australia it is expected to work. I'm outta here.

I just put together and sent an email to H&F, with the pics I've posted here, along with another issue I just found with the lower guide bracket and one on the upper guide bracket.
This thing must have been built by monkeys. And designed.

Anyway, I explained that with all these faults, I don't intend to start and test it until he gets back to me.
It's in their lap now. I'll dust it off in the morning, put the guides back together and leave it alone until it's sorted out.

I was frustrated, then annoyed, then verging on depressed, now I'm just plain angry.

No point in continuing this thread. I'll turn it into a private argument from here on.
At least I have everything well documented. Now I want a fully working bandsaw, nothing less,

Originally Posted by Wolffie

Took us about 6 months to get to know our first band saw and get it working the way we wanted it to. It is rarely a matter of just buying it, starting it up and away you go.

I reckon H&F have been very accomodating with you, it has probably cost them more to help you than the saw is worth, so don't complain about their customer service.

Can't agree with that, sorry.

Everything (most things) will take time to understand and optimise and adapt to.
I don't think that is what is happening here, especially looking at that cut surface - which might prove quite diagnostic.

The cost to the supplier is immaterial. They choose to stock an item, and advertise it as capable of a certain level of performance - then they are held by law to supply a product meeting reasonable criteria.

The time and cost involved to them has to be either accepted as the cost of being a supplier of 'variable quality' product, or an object lesson in protecting their good name and reputation. Maybe 90% of these machines work ok, 5% require some aftersale service and 5% are truly bs. They'd do better to filter out the rubbish *before* they go out the door.

My medium bandsaw - bought 2nd hand with a riser block, which you can see in my album, is of a light, home-duty type construction. I tried some 100mm jarrah today with a *very* ordinary blade. See results. Far from perfect but probably workable. It is perfectly reasonable for Steve to expect better results outta the box - and a consumer affairs department would be behind him 100% imho.

Anyway Steve, I'll call Saturday - see what we can figure out.

Cheers,
Paul.

BTW ... the straight cut is where the blade entered, the bent one is the exit.
I was only using a 1cm high fence, and watching my fingers

Seeing the divot in those guides, what material are they?
Plastic I'd understand.
If they are that soft, maybe the shavings are kinda embedding into the angle one??
Personally I'd try some wood scraps.

I was going to say that the guide bent up would be ok as long as it is still in line with the blade, ... but ... the blade should meet flat onto the thrust bearing, not hitting just a point of it. Do you think that is happening, Steve?

Cheers,
Paul.

PS - I didn't mean to *pay* for pine!
You must have tossed out furniture around about ... garden furniture ... power poles ...

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Can't agree with that, sorry.

Everything (most things) will take time to understand and optimise and adapt to.
I don't think that is what is happening here, especially looking at that cut surface - which might prove quite diagnostic.

The cost to the supplier is immaterial. They choose to stock an item, and advertise it as capable of a certain level of performance - then they are held by law to supply a product meeting reasonable criteria.

The time and cost involved to them has to be either accepted as the cost of being a supplier of 'variable quality' product, or an object lesson in protecting their good name and reputation. Maybe 90% of these machines work ok, 5% require some aftersale service and 5% are truly bs. They'd do better to filter out the rubbish *before* they go out the door.

My medium bandsaw - bought 2nd hand with a riser block, which you can see in my album, is of a light, home-duty type construction. I tried some 100mm jarrah today with a *very* ordinary blade. See results. Far from perfect but probably workable. It is perfectly reasonable for Steve to expect better results outta the box - and a consumer affairs department would be behind him 100% imho.

Anyway Steve, I'll call Saturday - see what we can figure out.

Cheers,
Paul.

I'd be happy enough with similar results. I don't expect perfection, but as things stand, I can't even get to the end of a cut.

Thanks for the help, Paul.
I'll do what you suggest, too, and not waste more of my Blackbutt in the bandsaw at the moment. Not that I'm using it right now anyway.
It's nothing special, only old building frame timber, but as I've mentioned, it matches the parts of my model that are finished. Also, because it's really old and well and truly seasoned, it's less likely to buckle when submerged in the ebonising solution for 5 hours. The tyres could be a bit fragile in that regard. I was pleased that the first one came out and dried as straight as it went in.
I'll make a mission of hand cutting it over the weekend. Slower and harder, but I can't do any damage that way.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

BTW ... the straight cut is where the blade entered, the bent one is the exit.
I was only using a 1cm high fence, and watching my fingers

Seeing the divot in those guides, what material are they?
Plastic I'd understand.
If they are that soft, maybe the shavings are kinda embedding into the angle one??
Personally I'd try some wood scraps.

I was going to say that the guide bent up would be ok as long as it is still in line with the blade, ... but ... the blade should meet flat onto the thrust bearing, not hitting just a point of it. Do you think that is happening, Steve?

Cheers,
Paul.

Yeah. Because of the shape of the bracket, it leans up and out to the right equally.
When it was attached, the outward lean might have been compensated for by swinging the bracket sideways slightly. The upward lean would remain, but should keep the faces of the blocks square to the blade surface. So it all depends on whether it was set up to compensate for the outward lean.

The material the blocks are made from is steel. It felt lighter, but a magnet told the story.

The other fault I found earlier is with the upper guide bracket. One of the holes was drilled crooked. This is pretty shoddy workmanship. I tried leaning it straight and tightening the grub screws, but it leans right over again.
This will be why the guides are off-centre and one has to be wound almost all the way in while the other is backed off more than it should be: -

Hermit,

With what You've shown us here, I would suggest that you approach H&F for either a full refund or a new CHECKED machine.


Jeff
vk4

Originally Posted by vk4

Hermit,

With what You've shown us here, I would suggest that you approach H&F for either a full refund or a new CHECKED machine.
Jeff
vk4

My thoughts exactly, Jeff.
Last night I sent off the email to them with all of these pics and on Monday morning I expect action. I'm going out now to put the guides back on, then not touching it.

Ha, you wouldn't believe it.

In the middle of adjusting the lower guides when I noticed that when the lower bracket is correctly positioned so that the guide blocks are just behind the blade gullets, then the thrust bearing is moved into place, it hits the weird metal guard bracket. Arrowed in pic.
I haven't seen this until now because it's tucked well in out of the way once everything is together. In this picture, both guides and the thrust bearing are correctly adjusted, with a writing paper thickness between guides and blade and with a playing card clearance from the rear of the blade to the thrust bearing. The bearing hits the bracket at the exact point that it's correctly adjusted.
So, what would happen if I put the 1/4" blade on? The thrust bearing can't move in that far because of the bracket. So much for the 4 new 1/4" blades.: -
Edit: I just sent another email with pic to H&F.

Steve hopfully you'll have a working machine ASAP.

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Steve hopfully you'll have a working machine ASAP.

Yeah, hopefully Ray.
I've already started looking around at others, just in case.
I'll have to wait to see which way things go - repairs, replacement or refund and another machine. The former would be fastest.
We'll see.

I am my own worst enemy when it comes to moving my BS about from its resting place to where I can use it. Partly because of my personal situation.
I grab the table and pull or push or swivel the BS I do not use the handle privided. For me its to low when I am up on my stool. This of course will not do the location of the table much good.



Steve looking at the BS you have bought it does not have lower guides at all is this correct?

Originally Posted by wheelinround

I am my own worst enemy when it comes to moving my BS about from its resting place to where I can use it. Partly because of my personal situation.
I grab the table and pull or push or swivel the BS I do not use the handle privided. For me its to low when I am up on my stool. This of course will not do the location of the table much good.



Steve looking at the BS you have bought it does not have lower guides at all is this correct?

I can't move mine. I weigh just under 50kg, it weighs 75kg.

It does have guides, Ray, but they're just blocks, not bearings or circular plates. There's a photo about 4 posts back, that also shows the latest fault.

And here: -