Thread: Table Bowed on new H&F BP-305 [among other things]

Originally Posted by jimbur

Perhaps now is the time to suggest that they swap it for a more expensive model to make up for all the continuing anger and angst they have caused you, plus the widening knowledge of this among the woodworking community. It certainly doesn't seem in line with their reputation.
Cheers,
Jim

That'd be nice, and I might suggest it on Monday when they tell me there'll be a long delay, (that's what I'm expecting to hear), but I won't hold my breath.

Hiya.

Just looking back to your blade guide photo.

1 - are they both the same length? wouldn't gain anything by swapping the L & R guides over I suppose?

2 - what is the surface like that does the guiding? I can see the threading etc, but what is at the blade end?

3 - I suppose the vertical guide post _is_ vertical, not coming over to one side?

4 - Lastly, as I have used jarrah for blade guides for my big old bandsaw, you might in a pinch be able to drill some hardwood so it tightly fits over the guide you have now on the left, and wind the actual guide back to make some room for the extra 'shoe' ???

Must be very frustrating for you.

Just don't stay up all night watching other people using their saws on Youtube

Some people make auxilliary tables for their b/s ... could be a keeper project that you can do to take your mind off it. Just with handsaws <cough>.

Also - change your lifestyle! Sleep during the day next to the phone, work in the shed at night-time

All the best,
Paul McGee

Originally Posted by Hermit

A 12" is all I have and, to be honest, it's very clear in the pics that even over that distance there's a considerable bow

!! !!

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Hiya.

Just looking back to your blade guide photo.

1 - are they both the same length? wouldn't gain anything by swapping the L & R guides over I suppose?

G'day Paul. Thanks for taking the time.
Both are the same length.

2 - what is the surface like that does the guiding? I can see the threading etc, but what is at the blade end?

Each (top) guide is a circular disc with a short rod extending from the centre that goes into the end of the brass screw adjuster.

3 - I suppose the vertical guide post _is_ vertical, not coming over to one side?

It does that too, but only when lowered. When raised to clear 7", it's centred. I'll need to look at why it lowers sideways, when this other stuff is sorted, because I can't lower or raise it without adjusting the top guides and thrust bearing. Only a minor point.

4 - Lastly, as I have used jarrah for blade guides for my big old bandsaw, you might in a pinch be able to drill some hardwood so it tightly fits over the guide you have now on the left, and wind the actual guide back to make some room for the extra 'shoe' ???

I actually managed to cure this problem for now, by lengthening the slots in the guide assembly mounting bracket and moving the lot over. Gave me an extra 0.8mm, so now I have the guides adjusted OK with a tiny bit to spare. I'll have to revisit this, but after some messing around tonight, I've got the guides all adjusted and the saw cutting straight and true as long as I keep the workpiece firmly pressed flat on the square surface to the LHS of the blade and don't let it rock onto the other side.

In the longer term, a 'shoe' over the guide might be a good idea to centre the adjusters.

Must be very frustrating for you.

Just don't stay up all night watching other people using their saws on Youtube

Some people make auxilliary tables for their b/s ... could be a keeper project that you can do to take your mind off it. Just with handsaws <cough>.

Also - change your lifestyle! Sleep during the day next to the phone, work in the shed at night-time

All the best,
Paul McGee

I just got the timber re-sawed and dressed to start marking out the chassis rails of my Roadster. The bandsaw cut squarely and without drift, so I've got it adjusted pretty well for now.

A decent auxilliary table is a good idea, when I get time, but for now I'm flat-out with 3 projects under way, so I'll just knock up a quick roughie out of chipbard to level the table-top for now.

I usually avoid working at night, to keep noise down, but I'm doing a bit tonight. I live on a busy road and it's Friday night, so there's plenty of other noise to drown out mine from the bandsaw and belt sander. (Actually, the vacuum cleaner is the loudest.)

I just set up a temporary chipboard tabletop, clamped to the cast iron one. I put shims under the low edge and half-way. Looks OK to me overall, except for one thing. I'm not sure whether to widen the slot at the blade, or leave it narrow as it is. My gut feeling is to leave it as-is for better workpiece support. There's about 0.005" to 0.010" clearance at the tooth tips. (The slot was cut with a Stanley General Purpose handsaw, that's why the edges are so rugged.) I'm just not sure about it for curves, mainly. See third pic. Any opinions on this appreciated.
Edit: I forgot to mention, I don't intend tilting the table while the new top is clamped on. That would need too wide a slot, wider than standard even, since it's higher above the table pivot-point.

I made the 'lead-in' and 'lead-out' ends 100mm longer than the cast table, but made it only slightly wider, to fit in the throat.

I guess there is one other point - Are those clamps enough? (I reckon so, but what do I know? I considered double-sided tape and no clamps at all, except to help press the tape firmly down.)

I have some longer 'F' clamps that can reach further to clamp a fence in place when needed - either a timber one or the original extruded aluminium fence.

* Oops, forgot the pics.
Here: -

Originally Posted by Hermit

I just set up a temporary chipboard tabletop, clamped to the cast iron one. I put shims under the low edge and half-way. Looks OK to me overall, except for one thing. I'm not sure whether to widen the slot at the blade, or leave it narrow as it is. My gut feeling is to leave it as-is for better workpiece support. There's about 0.005" to 0.010" clearance at the tooth tips. (The slot was cut with a Stanley General Purpose handsaw, that's why the edges are so rugged.) I'm just not sure about it for curves, mainly.

Unless I missed something, I don't see any reason to widen the slot. The tighter the better, basically. Being chipboard, if the blade happens move around at all it'll just cut its own way where it wants to.

If the upper and lower guides are closely set to the blade, and close to the work, then the blade shouldn't be turning left or right.

I like anything by Mark Duginske re: bandsaws ... do you have any books or videos?

Somethings you can do now are:
- cut some 12" pieces (1" square, 2"sq, 4" sq ) and see what happens if you set the fence to cut the material in half along the length and take a pass through. Any wandering?
- make a fence with a high back (say 4" or more) and try resawing some 2"x4"x12" (eg) into 1"x4"x12", and then half again.
- make a push-stick for the bandsaw ... maybe this shoulda been point 1
- make a circle-cutting jig, or addition to your tabletop, and try it out.

I was also thinking you might get away with clamps only on the inboard side, and make and glue/screw some L-brackets for/under the RHS of the table top to give you a clear table on the RHS without the clamps in the way.

Cheers,
Paul.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Unless I missed something, I don't see any reason to widen the slot. The tighter the better, basically. Being chipboard, if the blade happens move around at all it'll just cut its own way where it wants to.

If the upper and lower guides are closely set to the blade, and close to the work, then the blade shouldn't be turning left or right.

G'day Paul. My thoughts exactly. Anyway, I've been using it without problems.
The chipboard hasn't shifted and the clearance is the same. The blade hasn't yet hit the sides. It hits the guides first.
Edit: I set the thrust bearing about 0.015" behind the blade and the guides have about 0.005" clearance.

I like anything by Mark Duginske re: bandsaws ... do you have any books or videos?

No, not yet, but I keep getting pointed in that direction in my reading and YouTube viewing, so I'd better look more closely.

Somethings you can do now are:
- cut some 12" pieces (1" square, 2"sq, 4" sq ) and see what happens if you set the fence to cut the material in half along the length and take a pass through. Any wandering?
- make a fence with a high back (say 4" or more) and try resawing some 2"x4"x12" (eg) into 1"x4"x12", and then half again.

I already had the adjustment for drift just right. I fine-tuned tracking until there was no drift, so the cut runs dead square to the slot. I re-tested yesterday. ie. Marked a line down the centre of a piece of timber, 'steered' until the blade was tracking the line, then stopped the saw and drew a line along the side of the timber. Spot-on still.
Then I resawed some (~ 12" long) timber to 1/2" stock for my model cross members. No worries, so I dived right in and cut the main chassis rails without incident. Everything is nice and square. I just need practice at straight freehand sawing, but didn't do too badly. Still have to sand them. That raises another point. My blade is 1/2", 6TPI, and leaves pretty decent saw marks, even if I feed extra slowly. Is it worth trying to get my hands on a 10TPI or even a 14TPI for this type of work?

Attachment 209824

Attachment 209825

- make a push-stick for the bandsaw ... maybe this shoulda been point 1

You're the first to point this out, out of several threads. Thanks. Already done, though. I value my fingers: -

Attachment 209826

- make a circle-cutting jig, or addition to your tabletop, and try it out.

Yep. I've seen one or two on YouTube and have it on my list, along with a sled for cutting slices off rounds, with a clamp to stop spinning. I want one of everything.

I was also thinking you might get away with clamps only on the inboard side, and make and glue/screw some L-brackets for/under the RHS of the table top to give you a clear table on the RHS without the clamps in the way.
Cheers,
Paul.

Good thinking. I'll do that. In fact, brackets on both sides would be good. And it'd free up more clamps. You can never have enough of those.

Thanks again for the good advice, Paul. I appreciate all tips.

Originally Posted by Hermit

That raises another point. My blade is 1/2", 6TPI, and leaves pretty decent saw marks, even if I feed extra slowly. Is it worth trying to get my hands on a 10TPI or even a 14TPI for this type of work?

I would have thought 6tpi might have come out pretty smooth .. ?
I'm not the right guy to answer that, as my blade is 1" wide 20mm between teeth but maybe check the width of the kerf vs the width of the blade (not including the teeth).

How's the tension on the blade?

You can remove a little set by holding sandpaper (wrapped around a cloth or sponge etc) or an oilstone lightly to both sides of the teeth as it is running.

You want to remove it evenly or it will mess up your (lack of) drift.
If you do it, it would pay to recheck it again afterwards.

Others will know better than me.

Originally Posted by Hermit

Thanks again for the good advice, Paul. I appreciate all tips.

Any helpful advice is purely accidental. Most people get better sense out of blowing across an empty coke bottle.

Cheers,
Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

I would have thought 6tpi might have come out pretty smooth .. ?
I'm not the right guy to answer that, as my blade is 1" wide 20mm between teeth but maybe check the width of the kerf vs the width of the blade (not including the teeth).

Ha. A little bigger than mine. And I bought a 1/4" blade the other day. Still 6TPI, though.
Blade width is 0.5mm, kerf about 1.5mm or a fraction more. (Well under 2mm.)

How's the tension on the blade?

If I set the upper guides as high as possible, (7"), then press the blade sideways reasonably firmly half-way up, I get about 6mm deflection. (I read somewhere, push firmly enough that if it was the wife's shoulder, it would just put her off-balance. I guess that depends on the relative size of the wife.)

You can remove a little set by holding sandpaper (wrapped around a cloth or sponge etc) or an oilstone lightly to both sides of the teeth as it is running.

You want to remove it evenly or it will mess up your (lack of) drift.
If you do it, it would pay to recheck it again afterwards.

Others will know better than me.

Cheers,
Paul

Yeah, I reckon there's too much set on the blade for this thickness timber. Still, I won't try manually narrowing it in case I get off-centre or weaken it too much.
I might look for a 10TPI, with narrow kerf, for thin timber at or below 1/2".

Steve,

Just my .02 but the more teeth you get the slower you have to feed the wood through. I have a Timberwolf 3/8" blade with 3TPI with a positive claw config. I also have a Timberwolf 1/2" blade 3tpi for resawing. I never use any other size blades. I'm to lazy to change them

Sorr to hear that you had so much trouble with your new toy.

Here is a link Suffolk Machinery - Timber Wolf Bandsaw Blades There is alot of great information about blades.

Bret

Originally Posted by bj383ss

Steve,

Just my .02 but the more teeth you get the slower you have to feed the wood through. I have a Timberwolf 3/8" blade with 3TPI with a positive claw config. I also have a Timberwolf 1/2" blade 3tpi for resawing. I never use any other size blades. I'm to lazy to change them

Sorr to hear that you had so much trouble with your new toy.

Here is a link Suffolk Machinery - Timber Wolf Bandsaw Blades There is alot of great information about blades.

Bret

It could just be that I'm asking too much, not knowing what's normal, or even my shaky newbie hands. I wear high magnification glasses for fine work, too, so maybe I'm seeing too well sometimes. Whichever, seeing how easily the saw marks sanded out, I'm not too worried.

I've saved your link, there's some interesting stuff there. I'll have to go through it all. Every bit of reading helps.

This is a good little chart of the basics: - Attachment 209940

I'm expecting a call tomorrow, telling me when to expect the new table. Meantime, I'll route a groove for the mitre guide when I get a chance, then make those brackets to get the clamps out of the way, and I'm set.

Edit: I have to get used to changing blades. I'll be doing a bit of tight, curving stuff and need to swap to the 1/4" blade, or even 1/8" if it'll work OK.

Incidentally, mine is a 2-speed saw, but it's already on the faster setting.

Firstly ... I've heard of the cut-throat world of IT, but really ... what are they doing in there?

Second ... puzzling over SFM ...
2. Measure the diameter of the drive wheel in inches and multiply by .262 to obtain the wheel circumference. The RPM times circumference equals the surface speed of the blade. RPM x diameter in inches x .262 = SFM.

Circumference in the same units is pi x diameter = 3.141 x d

ok ... circ in feet = 3.141 x d/12 = 0.262 x d

So SFM mean Something Feet per Minute. Ahhh ... S = Linear. Whaa?

Stupid acronym.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Firstly ... I've heard of the cut-throat world of IT, but really ... what are they doing in there?

Second ... puzzling over SFM ...
2. Measure the diameter of the drive wheel in inches and multiply by .262 to obtain the wheel circumference. The RPM times circumference equals the surface speed of the blade. RPM x diameter in inches x .262 = SFM.

Circumference in the same units is pi x diameter = 3.141 x d

ok ... circ in feet = 3.141 x d/12 = 0.262 x d

So SFM mean Something Feet per Minute. Ahhh ... S = Linear. Whaa?

Stupid acronym.

Surface Feet per Minute. (Too many acronyms these days. LMFAO LOL) I had to Google it: - 'bandsaw SFM'
I carefully calculated my SFM for each speed by..... reading the manual - 1212 or 2622 fpm.

Now, back on topic, Dean rang me first thing this morning. (8.30) They have a BP-305 with no motor. (Look out, is the motor going to fail next?)
He's having it checked over and will ring me back later. I might be lucky. I'm pleased that he kept his word and is following up on this.

I hope you get a replacement as well. All the time you have spent making this one work as it should you could have been making more parts for your 30' Ford! Ok no more ranting.

Bret