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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Nowra, NSW, Australia
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    Default Table Bowed on new H&F BP-305 [among other things]

    My new BP-305 12" bandsaw (and a Scheppach OSS) arrived from H&F yesterday.

    I was a bit disappointed that the (bandsaw) manual was for an earlier model and didn't relate 100% to mine and a bit more disappointed at the almost total lack of setup information, but finally got there, thanks to online vids.

    It's not as nicely made/assembled as I'd hoped, the lower blade guide bracket was twisted about 10 degrees to the side, so the guides and their backing plate had to be removed to adjust and tighten the support plate, then re-assembled and adjusted, the bottom wheel drive belt screeches and tries to climb onto the larger pulley as soon as it's tensioned. No form of adjustment here - it's housed, I might have to get used to that bit. I'll re-visit it. Edit: The tensioner causes it, it pulls on a bad angle. That's what's housed.
    A number of spring washers, (for mounting the table), were missing, and during assembly, also, they'd forgotten to tighten a couple of bolts at all.
    That small metal bracket that you can see just below the table was bent way over to one side, touching the blade, when the saw arrived, too.

    Now, having got everything else right, set the blade exactly at 90 degrees to the table, tension, tracking, guides, thrust rollers, etc, etc, my trial cuts weren't square. Rechecked the blade for square, (on the LHS of the blade), it was good, then on impulse checked the vertical angle between blade and the outer side of the table - out by a degree or two. The table is bowed through the middle, especially on the leading, (blade entry), side.
    It's not as bad on the trailing side of the blade.

    I'm wondering if anyone has any idea what it might cost to get it milled flat? I'm in Nowra, H&F are in Sydney. Is it likely to be cheaper than posting it back to H&F, probably at my own expense?

    In the pic, the straight edge is in contact with the table on the far RHS, then dips slightly before rising to the middle, then drops away to the left. It's all over the place.

    I guess I should also ask, first, is this table acceptable? Really coarse finish, too, I'll have to smooth it heaps. It grabs the wood.
    Are those other problems usual too, or did they just see me coming?

    Thanks in advance for any replies. I want to decide what I'm doing before Monday morning.

    Edit: Camera distortion doesn't help, but I'm sure you can see the light.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

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  3. #2
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    Oct 2009
    Location
    Springfield NSW
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    Tell them it's bent. send them the photo. Tell them to ship a new one AFTER they have checked it for flatness.
    ____________________________________________________________
    there are only 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary arithmetic and those that don't.

  4. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avery View Post
    Tell them it's bent. send them the photo. Tell them to ship a new one AFTER they have checked it for flatness.
    Yeah, I guess if I show the pic, I might not have to send the dud back at my expense. I'm just used to that being the case with most transactions elsewhere.

    I can handle the other, relatively minor, hassles, but this one pi55ed me off a little.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  5. #4
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    Oct 2009
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    Springfield NSW
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    It would seem that it is not unusual for cast iron tables on these things to be warped. We have had 2 at the local Men's Shed and I know of at least 2 others, these were all CarbaTec saws and were replaced without question - although it took some weeks to get them. I would imaging H&F will be a similar story.
    ____________________________________________________________
    there are only 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary arithmetic and those that don't.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Armadale Perth WA
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    51
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    We can see the light alright! hopefully so will they.

    There is no argument - item for sale must be fit for purpose - otherwise it could become a consumer affairs issue. If they buck up, then the CA people can be very helpful.

    On the other hand, this is a customer relations exercise for them and, if they deal with it well, could increase the likelihood of you dealing with them again.
    They could eg pay to have it flattened local to you, rather than all the extra freighting around.

    Good luck with it, insist on a serviceable product.

    Cheers,
    Paul McGee

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Nowra, NSW, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avery View Post
    It would seem that it is not unusual for cast iron tables on these things to be warped. We have had 2 at the local Men's Shed and I know of at least 2 others, these were all CarbaTec saws and were replaced without question - although it took some weeks to get them. I would imaging H&F will be a similar story.
    Although I've never dealt with them before, they have a great reputation, so I'll see what they say.

    I can see how they might warp and release pressure when the slot is cut for blade entry. It's worst along that line.

    Meantime, while it's being sorted out, I'll cut some 3/4" chipboard to size and clamp it with appropriate shims to sit flat, so there's no rocking. Can't use the rip fence or mitre guide then, though.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Sunbury, Victoria, Au.
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    Definitely push your case for a replacement. This is not acceptable and as already stated they have to sell goods fit for purpose.

    I have purchased an item from them in Victoria and insisted that before delivery it was to be checked over by their techs. This was done without argument and everything was OK!
    Russell (aka Mulgabill)
    "It is as it is"

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    We can see the light alright! hopefully so will they.

    There is no argument - item for sale must be fit for purpose - otherwise it could become a consumer affairs issue. If they buck up, then the CA people can be very helpful.

    On the other hand, this is a customer relations exercise for them and, if they deal with it well, could increase the likelihood of you dealing with them again.
    They could eg pay to have it flattened local to you, rather than all the extra freighting around.

    Good luck with it, insist on a serviceable product.

    Cheers,
    Paul McGee
    Thanks, Paul. I'll ring them Monday morning, and back up the call with an email with the pic attached.

    Meantime, I could use the rip fence and mitre guide if I just route straight slots in the chipboard. (Cant do the fancy ones with my Dremel router bits).
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgabill View Post
    I have purchased an item from them in Victoria and insisted that before delivery it was to be checked over by their techs. This was done without argument and everything was OK!
    Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
    Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.
    No need to pay extra, it is a part of their Quality Control and pre-delivery testing.
    If you have their 2012 catalogue, have a read if their Profile inside the front cover. I assume it was also in previous years editions as well. Point that out to them as well!!!!!

    Also read Clause 9 under Trading Conditions on their web site http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/FAQs/Legal-Privacy#241
    Last edited by Mulgabill; 19th May 2012 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Link added
    Russell (aka Mulgabill)
    "It is as it is"

  12. #11
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    Nowra, NSW, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgabill View Post
    No need to pay extra, it is a part of their Quality Control and pre-delivery testing.
    If you have their 2012 catalogue, have a read if their Profile inside the front cover. I assume it was also in previous years editions as well. Point that out to them as well!!!!!

    Also read Clause 9 under Trading Conditions on their web site Legal & Privacy | machineryhouse.com.au
    Isn't clause 9 about "Personal Property Securities Act"?


    There's this: (iv) the continued use of any Goods after any defect becomes apparent or would have become apparent to a reasonably prudent operator or user
    Technically, I can't use it at all for now. Probably best if I don't. I can wait. Hopefully not too long after Monday.


    I don't have this year's catalogue and haven't been into woodworking long enough to have a previous one, but found this on their site: - 2012 Sydney warehouse moves closer to its showroom & into a large 4500 square metre warehouse with new storage facilities to meet the expansion of Handling, Testing, Quality control, Quicker despatches & Pick ups

    Quality Control? Testing? This saw could not have been tested. The blade was snagging that little bracket as mentioned. In the box, it couldn't possibly have been knocked and bent. If it had been tested, too, the other problems wouldn't have existed.

    Anyway, it'll sort out on Monday.

    The upper LHS blade guide doesn't adjust in far enough, either, and runs out of thread 0.5mm away from the blade. The bracket has slots, but they're at the adjustment limit. I was going to file the slots out longer for more adjustment, so the guide adjusters were more central, but better not do that for now, either. The whole thing might be going back yet.

    This is definitely not the best bandsaw in the world. Not yet, anyway. Takes a bit of the fun out of getting a new toy.

    On reflection, 'testing' probably usually means tuning and testing one from each batch, or one before buying a batch.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
    Boy I wish I'd done that. I'd pay extra for the checkover, if they remedied any actual faults at their own cost before shipping.
    Sorry Steve should have been Clause 10. Defects, Warranties and Returns, Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA)
    Russell (aka Mulgabill)
    "It is as it is"

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgabill View Post
    Sorry Steve should have been Clause 10. Defects, Warranties and Returns, Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA)
    Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks, Russell.

    You're right. Luckily here in Oz we have pretty comprehensive inherent implied warranties. (That was a mouthful.)

    I'm not really concerned that they won't make it good. I'm sure they will. Quickly, I hope.
    I'm not worried, either, about complaining about the other, lesser problems. I'd sort of prefer to sort them out myself. Then I know it's done properly and just how I want it.

    Thanks again for your help, Russell.

    I was thinking of writing a review on this machine in a few weeks after a bit of use, but I think I've already said enough on the subject.

    I'll still write one on the Scheppach oscillating spindle sander, though. It's a beauty and gave absolutely no trouble. Works like a dream. Just can't cut anything out on the bandsaw to sand with it yet.

    Back to the compound mitre saw or hand saws for now.....
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  15. #14
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    Just a thought could it have been dropped?
    Regards
    Hugh

    Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Duke View Post
    Just a thought could it have been dropped?
    Regards
    G'day Hugh. Possibly, but I doubt it. Cast iron doesn't usually bend without breaking..
    I hope they don't try to say I dropped it!
    I'm already wondering how I'm gonna get it back to them. I'll have to get a courier to pick it up, I guess - don't have a car to take it anywhere.

    Edit: Been doing some reading: -

    Why Castings Warp
    When a cast part cools from the molten state, thinner areas tend to cool faster than thicker areas and the differential cooling and shrinking sets up unbalanced, residual stresses in the solid metal. When part of the metal is machined away the stresses can become even more unbalanced and the part will warp from the stress.
    Apparently most of the warping occurs within the first year after cooling, so some manufacturers age their castings for a year before machining. However, it is expensive to store castings for a year rather than sell them right away, so many manufacturers skip this step. Even when they do age the castings, machining away stressed metal can cause further warping.

    Much like timber, it seems.

    Comes from here: - Flattening Warped Machine Tables using Shims
    (I don't intend to shim this one, but it's interesting anyway and might help someone else in the future.)
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

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