Thread: Upgrading my Bandsaw to a ???????

Derek, I agree that the Hammer has a 4hp motor. Whether this is is an advantage I am not quite sure as for most people it will involve additional expense in getting a dedicated circuit installed, so the installed cost could be substantially above the purchase cost, and I am not at all sure that the extra 1hp will actually give additonal benefit over and above a 3hp motor.

I am not sure where the "Chinese horses" come from as the Laguna is manufactured in Italy and uses a Leeson 3hp motor, Leeson hails from the USA.

LEESON Electric Corporation - www.leeson.com

Be that as it may, my CT4300 has a 3 Chinese Horse power electric motor and it has performed exceedingly well resawing Blackwood slabs right up to the maximum cutting height of the saw.

Hi Fred

HP may be measured in a number of ways. Ratings will differ accordingly. It is possible to score higher with one method than another. The marketing department plays a big part here.

I was not questioning Laguna, which is really a USA-base brand I believe (started in Denmark then moved to the States), since they have a reputation for dependable quality (a bit like a BMW), but rather brands such Carba-tec and similar generic brands (the Hyundais - decent for the price but built down to achieve it). They all get you places, but a Hammer (Mercedes) does it with more evident class. You know what you are getting is going to be made up to a standard rather than down to a price.

Regards from Perth

Derek

My new Minimax will be here towards the end of November. It is the first Machine I have purchased sight unseen so I can only hope for the best and I will post some initial impressions on it shortly afterwards. It will not be used in anger before the New Year I would think as I am in the process of largely gutting my workshop starting today and re-installing everything. From the videos I have seen I am confident it will do the job and the price was very good. The N4400 was a thousand dearer for one inch of cut capacity so I declined!

Originally Posted by stevepay

. . . .I haven't heard from anyone who owns a BP500?? not sure if thats a good sign.

I don't have a BP500 but I have the CT 19" BS which are made by the same Taiwanese mob that make the BP500.
It hasn't been used much for wood yet and I have mainly used it to cut up aluminium, plastic and frozen dog bones.

2HP is probably insufficient on such a saw and it could use a 3HP motor.
WIGRTI I plan to change the motor to a 3HP 3Phase motor and put a VFD on it so that I can use the VFD to brake the wheels.

All of BS I looked at have terrible dust collection and need mods to make them half decent in that regard
BTW I live in South perth if you want to look/chat about it.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

HP may be measured in a number of ways. Ratings will differ accordingly. It is possible to score higher with one method than another. The marketing department plays a big part here.

I too was very skeptical about chinese HP ratings until I started routinely monitoring the current drawn by electric motors on ww machines.
Technically speaking current draw alone is not the final call and some allowance for motor efficiency is required but for simple motors differences will only be in the order of a few %.

Electric motor HP ratings are difficult to determine because most of the time on most machines the motor is only used under a light/moderate load and only develops the rated HP rating when it is under higher loads.

Most motors can also develop substantially more power than their rating , the real question is then how long can they sustain it. For example my 3HP chinese TS developed 1.5HP at idle, 2 hP on moderate cuts, 3HP on heavy cuts and it will continue to generate up to 5.6HP before the motor trips out. Just how long a manufacturers expect a motor on a specific machine to work continuously at full rated power is difficult to determine making it very tricky to work out what the actual motor HP rating is.

Dust extractors are the opposite in that if the ducting is removed, the impeller will move the maximum about of air and hence the motor has to continuously operate at full power. The HP ratings on motors used on DC are thus easier to assess because they MUST be able to run continuously on a high load. Anyway I have checked out quiet a few (mostly chinese) motors on DCs and they have all come up to their claimed spec.

Differences between lower and higher quality motors are thus likely to be in the terms of longevity; like quality of bearings, cooling, insulation and tolerances, which will enable motors to run for longer, but based I my "limited" measurements the chinese horses do appear to be correct .

There seems to be a pervading attitude that if it comes from China it is somehow inferior, if it is a heavily promoted European brand it must be the bees knees.

This attitude does not take in to account that a lot of these European goods are either entirely made in China or contain a substantial percentage of components that are sourced from China.

There are a lot of people driving around in a Mercedes that has never even seen the inside of a factory anywhere in Europe, but in gact was made in Mexico (eg Mercedes 4WD), South Africa or any other number of countries that may or may not be any higher on the industrial scale than China.

A lot of Europena stuff is now manufactured in Rumania for instance, anyone that has visited some of these ex-Iron Curtain Eastern European countries will know that they are certainly not on the level of advancement of, say Germany.

Many Volkswagens and their other brands (eg Skoda) come from these countries, but because Volkswagen is perceived as German it must therefore be top quality. The recent very large Volkswagen recalls tend to contradict that perception.

Not that long ago The Age published a list of customer satisfaction ratings for motor cars.

It was interesting to see Hyundai in the top 10, Mercedes and BMW somewhere around the 30 mark.

Marketing is a powerful medium and a lot of people are swayed by brand rather than reality, which can often be 2 different things.

A lot is made of the country of origin of manufactured goods. Our vey "own" Holden is often referred to as an Australina made car. The reality is that 70+ % of that Holden is overseas sourced, including from China. I would think the same applied to a lot of cars, and other manufactured goods.

People will happily fork out $300 for a pair of Nike shoes, conveniently forgetting that it is made in a sweat shop somewhere in Asia by unskilled and very much underpaid labour. They would never consider buying the cheap "copy" on Ebay, which may come out of the same factory and have the same brand on it.

To relate this to woodworking machinery, do a search on this forum for Jet branded (notice I didn't say manufactured) machines and read the number of problems that people report with these machines, which are only distinguished from the exact same Asian sourced machines by their cleverly promoted paint job. Yet they command a substantial premium over these other Asian sourced machines, for little or no advantage, but it makes the purchaser "feel good" because they can say "I own a Jet xxxxx".

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Many Volkswagens and their other brands (eg Skoda) come from these countries

Don't knock the Skoda!!

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Don't knock the Skoda!!

I wasn't and I wouldn't

Not since Volkswagen took them over anyway, prior to that they were on a par with Lada

I am sure Lada was better!

There seems to be a pervading attitude that if it comes from China it is somehow inferior, if it is a heavily promoted European brand it must be the bees knees.

It is not China and nor is it the Chinese factories. They are capable of world-best performance. I trust you are not inferring from my comments above that I was critical of Chinese factories.

What is pertinent is that Chinese factories are for hire and in demand because they are cheaper than Western equivalents. Manufacturers go there because either they need to produce a cheaper product to compete or because they want a cheaper product to maximise profits. Nothing wrong in this ... until the product specifications purposely begin to drop to reduce costs at the request of the Company (not the factory).

I have no doubt that there are factories producing similar bandsaw models for different brand names, and that each can come off the production line with a different specification. On the surface they look the same, but under the hood they have some differences. We see and discuss these differences on the forums every day.

I imagine that if a product is likely to have cost-cutting build into it, it is more likely to come from a Chinese factory than a German/Austrian/Italian factory. After all, why go there otherwise?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well guys I was pretty much ready to make a purchase, as discussed I had narrowed it down to only a couple of options and was making my final look overs today and also enjoying a nice sausage sizzle at H&F in Belmont

H&F had a 3 day sale with some decent discounts on band saws which made the comparison interesting, also Jeff at Carbatec very kindly offered me the CT5300 at the previous price before the increase so it was all looking good until on my way to the store to make the deal I stopped in at Beyond tools in Malaga to have a quick look at the Agazzani line of Band Saw which is very nice but the larger sizes are 3 phase and we were creeping up in price range for these industrial models.

Anyway I digress, you see while there I got talking to the manager and he was saying how he was in the process of getting in a mid range spec band saw to go between his entry level gear and his industrial range (Agazzani) well guess what the brand he is bringing in is the Laguna range apparently he is doing some deal with the supplier in Qld so that they can distribute them here in Perth

So even though I was tempted by the sale I have decided to wait and have a look at the LT18 in the flesh before I make any final decision. It may end up costing me a bit more now either way as the prices will all be higher but I will kick myself in the long run if I buy a machine just to save 200 bucks.

by the way thanks for all the input guys its all good info.

Steve

Originally Posted by wolften

I'll be buying a bandsaw in the New Year and I'm fairly sure my money is going on this Laguna
Seems to have all of the goodies.

I agree, 3HP Leeson motor, 355MM resaw capacity which is more than my Jet 18". Then you have the driftmaster fence which is one of the best I have used. I was so impressed I retrofitted one to my Jet18" for better resawing and adjustment and I couldn't be happier. First use after fitting and I was able to cut 1mm veneers even across width and height. The micro adjustable thickness function is superb.
There is a price premium however between the standard 14" and the 14" SUV which I believe may put it out of the running here based on the budget but if it was me I'd wait until I could afford the SUV.
Best of luck which ever way you go,
Cheers, Ian

Originally Posted by stevepay

Anyway I digress, you see while there I got talking to the manager and he was saying how he was in the process of getting in a mid range spec band saw to go between his entry level gear and his industrial range (Agazzani) well guess what the brand he is bringing in is the Laguna range apparently he is doing some deal with the supplier in Qld so that they can distribute them here in Perth

This is interesting news!
I've been eyeing off that Agazzani for a while (the Rapid 500 IRC), sadly that one one display is nearly 5 years old and they want to charge extra to fit the roller guides that came standard on that model up until it was sold to Panhans last year (no more Italian Agazzanis ). Not keen to pay new price for a model that may not be made by the new owners.

Will also wait to take a closer look at the Lagunas, otherwise its a Hammer for me.

The Agazannis are nice.. but if they do bring in the Lagunas, the SCM Lagunas are just as good but will cost a fair bit new.