Thread: Discuss - Going off grid

Hi cava,
Wouldnt have a link handy would you?

Stuart

This is important and if anyone can point me at definitive information for nsw and qld I'd appreciate it.

My understanding has always been gas and electricity is optional and water/sewer where it passes your property is mandatory.

I've been paying water rates on a vacant block for the last 10 years <happy> NOT.

I have not had to pay electricity supply to said block. I am sure I know people who have not had the power connected to occupied homes.

When I move I would prefer an unserviced block and to go off grid. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. South coast NSW is looking the likely option right now (Naroomaish area).

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi cava,
Wouldnt have a link handy would you?

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Don't have anything in front of me right now, however from memory it comes under the Fair Trading Act [Commonwealth Law] (it is called something else now). Whereby, it is illegal to force another party to do something without their consent ie both parties have to agree to it.

Commonwealth Law overrides state/local government law if there is a conflict of law between the two. Refer Australian Constitution Section 109.

Hope this helps.

Bob, have you thought about a wind turbine?

I have a bank of 16 PV panels on the roof at the moment and for the most part, they're OK and generate up to 20+kw per day in summer. During winter, it can be down to 1 or 2 kw per day, depending on the local weather of course.
Being in Melbourne, my weather situation is different to yours, but no matter where you live, the panels don't work at night (naturally enough! )

My system has dropped my electricity costs from around $600 to $800 for the summer period, to my last bill of $180, which I'm pretty happy about - but that's with a FIT of $0.66/Kwh, which I doubt will ever come around again.
In the mathematically broader view of things, I get about 6 hours of power generation per day from my solar system (3kw panels and a 4kw inverter)
The good lady Boss and I have just bought a block of land and will build & move in the next couple of years. The current stage we're at is tossing plans around, but I'm also thinking of the house energy ratings, etc for future building permits and the like... One of the things I need to think about is PV panels, but being a bush block, I'm going to have trouble with shade, orientation and so forth, so I don't think PV's are the way to go in my situation.

I'm now looking at a wind turbine, which, as far as my early research reveals, is basically the same 'type' of installation as PV's (ie: a generator and an inverter)
The real advantage is that the wind blows most of the time, so, cloudy days, night time, stormy weather and shady areas will still produce your power.
By my initial maths, I would only need a 1.5kw turbine with the wind blowing 12 hours a day for a similar output power to my current PV system. Of course, if it blows 24 hours I would double that figure.
That's gotta be good in the long run!

It would probably be ideal for an off grid system too. Charge the batteries overnight and use the stored power the following day... Of course, the batteries will still be charging during the day too, depending on how much juice was left from what you're using at the time.
As far as comparable costs, I think that turbines are a cheaper option and won't change their electrical parameters (much) over the years. The PV panels will lose efficiency as time goes on.

Just my rambling thoughts at the moment because I need to keep ideas running around my little brain for house designs, but I thought it might be helpful to your situation.

Solar is getting more and more affordable, and its to the point now where a lot of people are considering dropping wind turbines from their off grid set ups and just buying more solar. One place I looked at recently had panels going for approximately $1.20/Watt, which is pretty damn good for Australia.

It does add up to a big up front cost fairly quickly though. I'm in the planning phase for going off grid with a 3kW solar/1.3kW wind/3 days no-sun battery capacity. The wind is purely suplemental and I'm not calculating its potential input when working out required battery capacity. The biggest single cost item on that list is definately the batteries (lead acid), coming in at well over half of the planned spend. I'm also planning on using a generator when running heavy power tools.

I suggest going through an "identification" phase, where you figure out how much your usage actually is, where you can cut back without impacting your lifestyle and how big your system really needs to be.

Originally Posted by Malibu

The real advantage is that the wind blows most of the time,

Oh no it doesnt, not even close.
Ball park average output figure for a large well designed well located wind turbine is about 30% of its rating.(at least for the figures I have seen for Australian ones, maybe the wind farms out at sea do better). Now and again it will do nothing for a week. I doubt a small home turbine would come close to that number in most cases. Then you have to factor in a few losses here and there.(not saying a wind turbine is a bad idea)

How long does your FIT last BTW?

Stuart

Sorry, maybe I should have more accurately said it blows most of the time around here.
The FIT I believe is a government incentive from a few years ago of a guaranteed 10 years (If I remember correctly)
I still have 6 or 7 years left on it.

But "blows all most of the time" doesnt help much. The wind speed v power graphes I could find(mostly for larger turbines).
Nothing below about 13kph.
ramping up to reach rated power at 50kph.(50kph being "near gale force")
Cut off at 90kph. (slightly below "strong gale")
All I could find for Wandong was average for the last year or so at 22.3kph. At 22.3kph you would get about 30% of the rated power.

The problem is of course the real figure depends on exactly what sort of wind you get and your wind turbine. If all your wind is below 12kph or above 90kph, you could still have a 30kph average and get nothing*.

Having said all that. If the big boys with variable pitch turbines cant do much better than 30%. I'd be surprised if a small one could even get close to that. Of course you are welcome to come up with your own numbers.

Stuart

*of course you would change the turbine design

As I say...

Code:

Just my rambling thoughts at the moment because I need to keep ideas running around my little brain for house designs

I could of course be wrong
Apologies if I've misled anyone in my ramblings.

That isn't important Malibu; it is the discussion that is important.

Hey I'm wrong all the time.
I was attempting to pointing out that "as I understand it" if you or anyone else installed a 1.5kW wind turbine expecting an output of 18kWh a day they would likely be very disappointed.
I could also be wrong.
Pretty sure that you'd do better with a wind turbine than solar $ for $.
But I could be wrong about that also.

Stuart

I really do like the idea of wind power, but as I look out my front door right now, the leaves are just barely moving. It is like this for a lot of the winter months in Brisbane. Cool , dry and sunny; beautiful climate but not really for wind power.

So if we don't use wind or solar, what other sorts of power supplies are there?
Water maybe ~ World's Greenest WATER PUMP ~

Hey my father worked for a company that used to make those pumps. Problem with them is the use a lot of water to move not very much. Which is fine if you happen to live somewhere that has reasonable fall and a reasonable supply of water year round. If you scroll down you'll see his numbers say its has the same output as a 17W pump. Still thats about $37 a year.

If you were trying to save energy the first things I would look at is solar heating and heat storage. That might not be such an issue up your way.
Biogas would be fun to play with if you have the room, the time and the fuel supply.

I didnt say "dont use wind" BTW, just get some data and do some maths so you know what you'll be getting for your time and money in your area.

Stuart

A lot of the guys on the ATA (Alternate Technology Association) forum suggest that solar is more efficient than wind, even in Victoria.