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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default VFD install summaries

    A lot of members ask me about these so here they are all on one page.
    Some of the photos are outdated but there's enough there to get an idea of what I have done

    Case Study 1: Hercus 9A lathe

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ORIGIN: Obtained Free in 2010, converted in 2011. Original date of manufacture 1965-6


    Starting point:

    Motor 1/2HP, 3P, 415V, Y connected, 1440 RPM motor
    Switchgear. On/off 3P switch, old school thermal cutout switch, reverse switch all removed

    Final outcome (Original thread with pics are lost)
    Wholelathe.jpg

    Motor: Second hand (never used) 1HP 1440 rpm 3P Fasco motor - with Y-∆ conversion done in motor junction box
    Old 5/8” motor pulley would not fit 24mm new motor shaft - replaced with new 24mm bore Al pulley
    VFD: 2HP SAJ sensorless vector control.
    Switchgear: dedicated, new NVR emergency cut off to VFD power in front of lathe, all other controls and safety handled by VFD
    Frequency limit: 100Hz
    I usually keep the belts in the 3rd top gear but still need to change belts positions for slow speed work

    Comments: The SAJ senseless vector control provides more power/torque at speed less below 50Hx than a conventional V/F VFD. e.g. at below about 15Hz the VFD provides about double the power.
    This is one of the simplest and best conversions in my shed.

    Case study 2: 1HP Sherwood Drill press see VSDing a DP
    DP purchased new in 2007 converted in 2013


    Starting point:
    Motor: 1HP SP 240V motor
    Switchgear; single 240V emergency switch that also acted as as normal operating on/off switch

    Final outcome
    VSDing a DP-img_3605-jpg

    Motor: Leeson, second hand, high quality, 1440 rpm, 1.5HP, 3P - with Y-∆ conversion in motor junction box
    Old 5/8” Motor pulley required boring out to fit 19mm motor pulley.
    2HP Huanyang VFD mounted on custom bracket on LHS of drill head
    Switchgear: Old emergency (NVR) switch retained as general on/off switch to VFD power plus emergency switch. all other controls and safety handled by VFD.
    Remote reverse, switch, stop/start and pedal switch added, as well as remote speed dial (se white box in photo)


    Comments. The Leeson motor is excellent and will spins to 150 Hz without any problems but I usual restrict the frequency to less than 120Hz.
    I do change to lower gears for large metal bits and largest Forstners and hole saws.

    Case Study 3: 1/2 HP Woodfast wood lathe further info here BobL's shed fit.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Purchase new in 2008, converted in 2012.


    Starting point:
    Motor: 1/2 HP SP with 16 mm shaft
    Switchgear; single 240V emergency switch that also acted as as normal operating on/off switch

    Final outcome
    BobL's shed fit.-latheww-jpg

    Motor replaced with a used 1HP 3P 415V 1440 RPM Crompton Parkinson motor (from an old WoodFast lathe) - common point had to be brought out from deep inside motor - a very awkward conversion - one of the most difficult I have done.
    New motor (old motor still in photo above) much larger than old motor and had to be located under lathe. Thus required a new longer belt
    Old pulley did not have enough metal to be able to be bored out to 19mm shaft size of new motor. New stepped ribbed pulley turned up from scratch - a lot of work!

    2HP Huanyang VFD mounted on 600 mm SHS mast above headstock
    Switchgear: Old emergency NVR switch retained as general on/off switch to VFD power, extra hip activated emergency switch added to RHS front of lathe - just out of photo.
    All other controls and safety handled by VFD. Remote reverse, switch, stop/start switch added, as well as remote speed control in white box on front of lathe.

    VFD max frequency set to to 120 Hz
    As I use this for spindle work I rarely need to change gears.
    This conversion was a lot of work but is well worth it.


    Case Study 4: 10” Atkins Pedestal grinder (Old Atkins grinder
    Must be around 50 years old. Obtained free in 2014, was in very poor shape restored and repainted and converted in 2015)


    Starting point:

    Motor: 1HP 3P 1440 rpm Y connected, not possible to convert to ∆ in motor connection box.
    Motor low down in base connecting to driving spindle via a long belt.

    This grinder had two speed pulley to allow for wheel wear.
    All old switchgear completely removed

    Final outcome
    Old Atkins grinder-front1-jpg

    Motor converted to ∆ relatively easily inside motor
    2HP Huanyang VFD installed inside the pedestal and cooled with a 240V 6” fan.
    VFD panel and controls mounted outside pedestal.
    Dedicated new emergency NVR switch to cut off power to VFD installed, all other safety aspects handled by VFD.
    Max frequency set to 70Hz.
    Does not get a lot of use - plan to convert it into a Linisher.

    Case Study 5: 150 x 1500 mm belt, 200 mm disc sander more info Linisher Score
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Obtained free in 2014 , was in poor shape, restored and converted in 2014,
    Made in Italy and originally purchased from Hare and Forbes in the 1980s.

    Starting point: Motor: 3HP 3P 2 speed (2950/1450 RPM), Dahlander ∆.Y connected, not possible to convert to ∆ in motor connection box.
    Double ended motor shaft drives belt and disc direct
    All old switchgear completely removed


    Final outcome
    Linisher Score-finished5-jpg

    Motor converted to ∆ - very tricky, could not retain two speed but this does not matter as speed changes handled by VFD
    3HP Huanyang VFD mounted on 600 mm SHS mast above headstock

    New on/off/emergency NVR switch to cut off power to VFD installed, all other safety and control aspects handled by VFD.
    This machine could only be used with unusual sanding belt lengths, modified to take a standard 2m belt.
    This is an excellent powerful machine and I use it a lot.
    Frequency limited to 70Hz Most common speed is around 40Hz.


    Case Study 5: 19” Carbatech BS 19" BS upgrade
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Purchased new by me in 2008, modified in 2015

    Starting point:
    Motor: 2HP 1440 RPM SP 2 speed, done by changing belt positions
    Original motor starter box removed. keyed power and emergency switches retained.

    Final outcome
    19" BS upgrade-electronics1-jpg


    Old motor swapped out for a "never used" 1440 RPM 3P 3HP Leroy Sommer motor with foot mount converted to flange mount.
    This is a brilliant motor with an independent wired fan that runs @ twice the speed of the motor.
    Existing 2 speed 19mm bore pulley did not have enough metal to be opened out to 28 mm so new single speed pulley custom made for this as the custom made disc brake attaches to the pulley.

    4HP Huanyang VFD mounted on left hand side of BS - frequency limit is 80 Hz ~5500 fpm band speed.
    Old keyed power switch used as on/off switch to supply power to VFD, emergency switch retained but easiest way to stop saw is by stomping on foot brake which turns off power to motor and stops band in <2 seconds.
    Additional on/off switch and speed control on cabinet door above operator.

    This machine works extremely well and I use a lot to cut timber and Aluminium.
    I also have a small log sled for it.

    Case Study 6: 1200 CFM squirrel cage blower Motor conversion - Where do I start?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Saved from a skip in 2014, modified in 2015, date stamped on motor is 1966

    Starting point:
    Motor: 1/4HP 3P 1440 RPM Compton Parkinson, wired in Y, no conversion possible in motor connections
    All old switchgear removed,

    Final outcome
    Motor conversion - Where do I start?-img_5179-jpg
    Motor and blower restored and refurbished, squirrel cage blower needed rebalancing using small metal clips direct to blower fins.
    Motor converted internally to ∆ relatively easily
    Used 1HP VFD obtained from eBay ($85) with limited functionality compared to other VFDs but it works fine.
    Frequency limited to 80Hz
    No emergency switch on this machine - machine power just turns on at wall socket and all safety and control aspects handled by VFD.
    Works extremely well as a general room ventilator, it’s quiet and efficient especially at low speeds e.g. 40Hz

    Case study 7 : 2 identical 1HP 8” 2859 RPM GMF grinders Two GMFs and one VFD
    Obtained free in 2014/15, probably date from the 1970’s?)

    Starting point:
    Motors are 1HP 3P wired as Y - no easy ∆ conversion possible and no connection box.
    All old switchgear removed

    Two GMFs and one VFD-1vfd2g-jpg

    Final outcome
    Motors converted to ∆ internally - very tricky
    These grinders share a 2HP Huanyang VFD mounted on 600 mm SHS mast above grinders.
    A custom made interlocked cross over switching system prevents VFD disconnection from the motors while VFD is running.
    Custom made emergency switch and speed control box located under VFD.

    One grinder has a thin cut off wheel in a custom made mini table saw and a green wheel, the other has CBN and a scotchbrite wheels.
    Speed limited to 70Hz.
    This setup is excellent and I use it every day.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I also have custom made electric motor HP measuring rig that can cope with motors up to 5HP.
    It uses a 5HP Huanyang VFD mounted on 300 mm SHS mast above the rig,
    I also gave 3 other VFDs and have converted a 4HP compressor and several other WW lathes to run on VFDs





















    Last edited by BobL; 15th Jul 2019 at 10:12 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Cheers for the summary mate! Just about to go down this path with my jointer and I'm excited to get it going. Passed on a ton of cheap machines in the past due to 3 phase.

  4. #3
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    Thanks for taking the time to write this up Bob
    Am also looking at heading down this path and for an electrical novice it is daunting. There appear to be at least a couple of brands of Chinese manufactured vfd's on ebay and knowing whether they will perform OK is a big ???? Nothing like getting feedback from others who have used them.
    It appears that vfd's are getting smarter and smarter in terms of programability, 99% of which will be useless to me. Just need something that can do soft start, breaking and variable frequency and the cheap Chinese units appear more than capable of that.
    An Australian supplier, Conon motor, is selling both Chinese motors and vfd's
    http://stores.ebay.com.au/CONON-MOTO...ub=20490530018 . Has anyone had any experiences with this supplier or their product. Are there any features to look for when deciding between different makes of Chinese vfd? ie make of chip etc.
    Unless I get a bad rap on these units I will probably give one a try.
    Considering the increasing interest in vfd's on this forum and the number of questions about them that are popping up in all sorts of threads I reckon they could do with a sub forum of their own. One thread on vfd'd that ends up with a lot of pages in it wont be an easily usable resource for folk like me starting out on their journey.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to write this up Bob
    Am also looking at heading down this path and for an electrical novice it is daunting. There appear to be at least a couple of brands of Chinese manufactured vfd's on ebay and knowing whether they will perform OK is a big ???? Nothing like getting feedback from others who have used them.
    It appears that vfd's are getting smarter and smarter in terms of programability, 99% of which will be useless to me. Just need something that can do soft start, breaking and variable frequency and the cheap Chinese units appear more than capable of that.
    90% of the functions and their capabilities are indeed of little value to woodworkers.
    However it is possible to still get caught out because of what is missing and a few other things.
    Here are some things to watch out for

    Speed range
    For some WW operations the VFD should have at least 150Hz operation. Most VFDs do this but some don't. One used VFD I have (the one on the blower) only has 0 - 99Hz capability - this is fine on the blower because 70Hz is more than enough to drive the air but it would probably not be enough for say a DP or a lathe.

    Braking circuitry
    All VFDs have some sort of deceleration capability but this is different to fast-emergency breaking. While most cheap VFDs have the fast braking software they usually have some of the braking hardware missing and this has to be added and expect to pay more for VFDs with all the built in braking circuitry. In addition, fast breaking requires an extra resistive load be added to the VFD.

    Deceleration range
    Many cheap VFDs on the market are usually built to drive CNC spindle motors with relatively small bits. Some have limited deceleration ranges and sometimes they don't even have a coasting stop.
    The same VFD on the blower above does not have "coasting stop" and only has a deceleration time of between 1 and 3 seconds. That means you have to choose between 1 and 3 seconds to stop the motor.
    This is OK on the blower because the squirrel cage impeller is lightweight and has a relatively low angular momentum and self brakes because the air slow it down.
    However some loads (like an 8" grinding wheel or a large bowl on a lathe) may have too high an angular momentum to enable a cheap VFD without a brake to decelerate in even 3 seconds let alone in 1 second. About the slowest I can decelerate a grinder is 15 seconds. If you ask the VFD to decelerate the motors and it can't it will give up and register an ERROR and you will have to restart it. Repeatedly doing this can lead to VFD damage as I found out when the caps exploded on VFD running an 8" grinder. On my grinder and belt/disc sander setups I use coasting stop. The VFD just cut power to the motor and lets the motor and load coast to a stop. If the motor an load are still running and you hit start on the VFD the VFD will try to start the motor at zero RPM (i.e. it will try and stop the motor completely before accelerating again) which it doesn't like and can damage the VFD.

    Acceleration.
    Just like deceleration changes, high angular momentum loads may not be able to make any speed changes rapidly. On my belt sander and grinders I have to change speeds slowly - too fast and the VFD trips out. Some VFDs have a function that can be set to limit speed changes.

    Using a larger VFD
    The chances of a VFD tripping can be reduced by using a VFD with a higher power rating.
    This is fine but you need to be aware that their factory settings will be for a comparable size motor. The issue is compounded by the fact that 3P motors usually come with ZERO built in protection (such as current supply limitation which prevents motors from overheating which is usually found built in on SP motors) and it is assumed that ant protection is provided by the sparky that connects up the motor on a machine. Thats why 3P motors on machines usually have an extra boxes of eletrickery attached to them. The box is usually a em starter and NVR switch plus a current limiter. The VFD is very good at protecting a 3P motor so these extra boxes are not necessary (in fact nothing should be between the VFD and the motor and they should be hard wired) PROVIDED the programming is done correctly

    Lets say you have a 2HP motor and you drive it with a 5HP VFD. The factory setting for max current output on the 5HP VFD will be ~17A. If the load on the 2HP motor increases it will keep drawing more current up to 17A before the VFD does something about it by which time the motor will be cooked. This means you have to program the VFD for a lower current max setting which for a 2HP motor will be something like 8A plus a short term.time margin.

    Factory settings
    Don't believe what a manual says is a factory setting. I connected up a 2HP VFD to a 2HP motor with a supposed factory setting of the max frequency function of 50Hz. When I turned it on, the VFD tried to drive the motor to 400Hz. Fortunately the VFD sensed there was a problem and at about 200Hz dropped the power to the motor. Everything was OK i'm just using this as an example.

    Playing around with a range of different VFDs
    If you have hundreds of hours to spare, like reading chinglese manuals riddled with errors, and playing around with settings ad nauseum then no worries.
    However what I found is having too many different VFDs gets really frustrating.
    If you ask a forum question about programming a VFD that no one knows about don't expect them to spend hours reading a manual to find out what the problem might be.
    If you want support it's probably better to settle on buying VFDs that forum members know something about.
    On this forum its probably the Huanyang and Powtran VFDs.
    A lot of the cheap chinese VFDs are clones of the HYs which is probably cloned from something else, but some that look like HY clones may have quite a different instruction set.

    Using a larger motor
    The other thing to know is between 0 and 50 Hz the max power of the motor is proportional to applied frequency.
    So at 25Hz the max power is 1/2 the max power of the motor, at 12.5Hz the power is 1/4 etc.
    To get around this it is common to upgrade the motor to one that is more powerful - this can lead to mechanical headaches like different mounting arrangements, shaft sizes, space etc.
    For small motors doubling the size of the motor is usually Ok but just remember the motor and machine are usually matched by the manufacturer and putting a 3HP motor on a machine that had a 1HP motor could be asking for trouble. Instead of the motor just stalling under excessive load the 3HP motor could simply tear the machine apart. Some current limiting programming may be needed.

    Speed range
    This is a long topic and I will try to keep it brief.
    Bearings in motors vary considerably but most are more than capable of handling at least the 50 - 60Hz jump and speeds up to about 4000 rpm.
    However, bear in mind a 3000rpm motor at 50Hz running at 100Hz is now doing 6000rpm. most reasonable quality bearings can cope with this but maybe not on a cheap motor.
    You can of course upgrade the bearings but I do wonder how long some cheap motors rotors will hold together at these speeds.
    A two pole (3000 rpm) motor is usually limited to about 100Hz and unless well designed made, above this speed the frictional forces really start to drag on the motor and it loses power.
    A 4 pole motor (1440 rpm) can usually be driven to 150 Hz (4320rpm) without suffering too much.

    At the opposite end of the speed range 3P Motors also don't like being driven too slowly under load or they over heat - 3P motor fans usually turn at the same speed as the motor.
    To be safe a motor should not be driven below about 15Hz for too long under load
    I usually stick to no less than 20Hz for prolonged operation where the motor has at least 40% of its max power.
    If you need to operate continuously a low speed installing a stand alone fan like a computer fan to cool the motor should do the job.

    The speed range for a 2pole motor is thus 20 - 100 Hz or 5:1
    For a 4 pole motor its ~20:150 or 7.5:1
    So unless the motor is integral to a machine (like on my sander which has long shafts at each end for the belt drum and disc) its better to go for a 4 pole motor and leave it in a gear/belt position that covers the greatest range of speeds you use.

    DPs and lathes are where you need the widest range of speeds are where and you may still not cover the range. Machines like Band saws, Grinders and Sanders only need a relatively small speed range (maybe X2).
    I cannot think of a reason for speed changes on a planner/thicknesser, TS, SCMS or RAS although fast braking would be very handy.

    With a vector control VFD you can sometimes double that range again but expect to pay more and watch out - some VFDs claim to be vector controlled but have missing circuitry.

    An Australian supplier, Conon motor, is selling both Chinese motors and vfd's
    http://stores.ebay.com.au/CONON-MOTO...ub=20490530018 . Has anyone had any experiences with this supplier or their product. Are there any features to look for when deciding between different makes of Chinese vfd? ie make of chip etc.Unless I get a bad rap on these units I will probably give one a try.
    I only know about their motors and they seem to be OK for the price.
    To comment on the VFD we'd need to see the manual

    Considering the increasing interest in vfd's on this forum and the number of questions about them that are popping up in all sorts of threads I reckon they could do with a sub forum of their own. One thread on vfd'd that ends up with a lot of pages in it wont be an easily usable resource for folk like me starting out on their journey.
    Lets see what develops. My impression is a lot of folks get very excited about VFDs when they first see them but that enthusiasm rapidly evaporates when the see the problems that arise is great than their skill and electrical knowledge.

    However, once they find out about the problems they give up and either pay someone to do conversions for them or go back to changing belts. Over the last couple of years I've had about 2 dozen blokes mostly from men's shed look at my VFD setups. One group of shedders only had SP power in their shed and had been given a number of 3P machines and were interested in using them. Even though I've offered to help with further advice (I make it pretty clear they have to clear everything with their sparky) only one bloke has ever got back to me about VFDs and I don't believe any of them have installed a VFD yet. About a dozen blokes from the forums have contacted me and some of them have installed them

    Anyway I hope this is useful.

    My suggestion is not to just go out and buy VFD just to have a VFD but to assess what the specific machine you want to add the VFD to actually does and how you use it FIRST.
    Then select the motor and VFD as a pair that you think will cover usage and ask questions on the forum about it.

    One of the forum members with significant experience with VFDs (especially the HYs) is Joe Hovel and I'm sure he will chip in where he can.

  6. #5
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    Thanks again Bob. Really good information on some of the pitfalls associated with cheap vfd's. General information like this is hard to track down for someone who only has basic electrical knowledge. Very good point about sticking to brands others have experience with.
    Am thinking about converting my lathe to variable speed. Replace the old 1 hp motor with 2 hp 3 phase and vfd. The current model of that lathe runs a 2 hp motor.
    Have tried a search for powtran vfd and couldn't find an Australian seller. Not thinking of buying for a few months so will continue to read and learn.
    Thanks
    Tony
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  7. #6
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    Thanks Bob. As usual I have a question I'm exploring all possibilities and was wondering whether anyone had wired their motors so they had a male plug on a lead and the VDF wired with a female socket so it could be used like a "power point". That way you could plug individual machines into a single VFD when you wished to use it, if you get my drift.
    Maybe not possible, but it was just a thought.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    Thanks Bob. As usual I have a question I'm exploring all possibilities and was wondering whether anyone had wired their motors so they had a male plug on a lead and the VDF wired with a female socket so it could be used like a "power point". That way you could plug individual machines into a single VFD when you wished to use it, if you get my drift.
    Maybe not possible, but it was just a thought.
    9 out of 10 people who start out with VFDs ask this , as its a good question but it's a bad idea for a number of reasons.

    1) VFDs are usually programmed for a specific machine - if you move it to another machine it has to be reprogrammed to suit - i.e. a PITA.
    More expensive VFDs have programmable memories so you can store and recall a set of parameters - you just better be certain you recalled and installed the right program or you would might cook the motor or have the machines throw things around a workshop because you chose an incorrect speed range.

    2) Connecting and disconnecting a VFD from a motor
    In most cases it is recommended by the manufacturer that VFDs be hardwired direct to a motor with no switch gear or plugs in between the VFD and the motor.
    This is because if the VFD and motor are running and a disconnect is made there is a risk of damaging the VFD. I know some folks have disconnected them and I believe if the motor is not under load the risk is low, but under load will almost certain blow chips on the VFD.

    3) VFDs are more like computers than switches. They take time to boot up and shut down - not long (3-5 seconds) but long enough to be an irritation. They also don't like to be constantly turned ON/OFF multiple times a day. This means when you turn a VFD on you usually leave it on until you leave the shed.

    The use pattern goes something like this. Lets say I want to do some turning. I go down to the shed and start the lathe VFD - this does not start the lathe it just starts the lathe VFD. I then start the lathe using a remote VFD switch and do some turning - lathe is turned on/off multiple times using the remote but VFD itself stays on all the time. In between I might need do a bit of sharpening. I start the VFD on the Grinder station and then start the grinder and sharpen and go straight back to the lathe - grinder VFD also left on. Then I might need to use the BS for a few cuts etc. Only when I leave the shed are all the VFDs turned off

    Can you see what a major PITA stopping a VFD, waiting for it to shut down, switching it across to another machine, waiting for it to boot - making sure the right program is installed, would be be? This doesn't work in practice.

    I do have one VFD that is shared by two machines. This is a special case as these are identical grinders (so can use the same VFD program) and they are hardwired via an interlocked crossover switch.

    3) Cheap VFDs are not really the sort of thing you can tote around and plonk down on a dusty bench amongst a bundle of other gear. Their cases are not that robust and their connections are not that well protected. They are really designed to be installed inside an insulated vented cabinet well away from dust, heat and shock etc. Woodworking is not too bad but I still install mine on steel masts so they are out of the way.

    All that aside I do have a 7.5 HP Honeywell 3P-3P VFD that I use to test gear in workshops that already have 3P power.
    The VFD is located inside a steel cabinet that is designed to tote around.
    It has a standard 32A 3P input plug and an EU 3P outlet socket so its can only connect to an EU 3P Plugged gear.
    To test the gear I disconnect the wiring at the motor and connect in at that point.
    It has program recall capability and lots of nice features but even then I would definitely not like that to be my only VFD.
    Front2.jpg

  9. #8
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    A scenario that could use one VFD to power several 3P machines.

    Requirements/gotchas/assumptions
    Motors are 240V 3P compatible
    VFD is used primarily to generate 50Hz 3P from SP power.
    Speed control is not required
    Machines would need to have the same HP rating so same max current parameter etc is used by VFD for all machines
    Soft start is applicable and could be used on all machines, same could apply to braking if available
    All existing switch and protection gear would need to be stripped off machines
    All machine motors hard wired back to a cross over switch (inside an interlocked box) that redirects power from the VFD to any one of the machines
    All machines would need an independent emergency switch wired back to the VFD power input (not output)
    A single remote control shoud be used to stop/start VFD output power while using a machine.
    Ideally this remote should have an NVR in series with it over by the box with the cross over switch in it.

    Operation would involve
    a) shutting down VFD output power to machine in current use using remote
    b) open door to box containing cross over switch - this opens a microswitch which also turns off VFD output power if operator forgot to do so at a) and also turns the NVR off.
    c) switch cross over to desired machine position.
    d) Shut box door, check state of remote (should be off) and activate the NVR
    e) Operate machine via remote.
    The micro switch on the box door, the NVR referred to above and the remote are all in series so all have to be in active for the machine to run

    The reason for the NVR is if the remote is left in the "on" state then closing the door will immediately start the machine.
    The NVR is a safety step to give the operator a chance to check the state of the remote before activating it

    This is effectively what I have done for the two 3P grinders on my grinder stand.
    This sounds very messy but it really does work .

    Is it kosher? Read my signature.

  10. #9
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    Thanks to Bob, I did an upgrade to my little wood fast installing a 1HP 3PH 240V motor, installed under the lathe in the cupboard, with a VSD mounted above. The photo of the motor & VFD is during my testing phase. The other photo is the final configuration of my mobile set-up I take to demos and Turnabouts

    new motor test.jpg new setup1.jpg
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  11. #10
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    For anyone that is interested to see how I tested the HP ratings of modified motors, I posted it all in a thread in the MW forum back in 2014.
    VSD power tests - Page 6

    The typical HP versus RPM graphs produced for a 1HP motor look like this.
    What this shows is the max HP produced at different frequencies (Sorry legend is not labelled but it is the VFD frequency)
    It shows the Max HP is approx proportional to frequency between 0 and 50Hz (1440 rpm) and the the Max HP slowly decreases after that.


    VSD power tests-hpvfdeltato130hz-jpg
    Last edited by BobL; 15th Jul 2019 at 10:19 AM.

  12. #11
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    VFD Basic review

    Following a lead from Fetty in his shed thread I also purchased a Powtran PI91-2R2G1, 2.2kW VFD from eBay for $150 plus $20 shipping from Perth.
    This sounds like a pretty good price to me and given its features it's more like a $300 VFD.
    I have not seen any others of these 9000 series VFDs available at these prices so it might be an outdated model.
    The powtran website (www.powtran.com) is not connecting but the Powtran/Alibaba web page shows the 9000 series as a current model.

    I've spent a half hour skimming the manual and connecting it to a 3HP motor and dabbling with the programming features so I thought I would write a short review about it. I will also (WIGRTI) run it though some tests on my HP rig and provide further details.

    Here it is on the LHS out of the box with the front (screw less cover removed) alongside a 3kW/4HP Huanyang (HY) VFD so you can see how much bigger it is.
    The HY Cost me
    If anything its form factor is more like 5HP HY VFD.

    IMG_2169.jpg

    Here's view from underneath.

    Attachment 412362
    You can see how the heatsink is larger than the 3kW HY

    The fact that the cable feed through and grommet panel on the Powtran can be completely removed makes it MUCH easier to wire up.
    On the HY I find I'm using haemostats to feed and hold the wires - also the connectors are large enough to use conventional (and safe) ring terminal crimp connectors whereas on the HY I have to sand the ring connectors down to fit in the smaller space provided.
    IMG_2172.jpg
    The other thing that is much nicer on the Powtran are the dedicated grommets for controls, Vin, Vout, and Brake. The HY has two grommets and its all pretty sloppy.

    Several other useful features I've found are;
    This is a true vector control VFD which is impressive for the price - the HY vector control VFD is at least $100 more.
    It has all the circuitry for built in braking provided, unlike the older HY to which circuitry has to be added.
    At slow speed control knob turning speeds the pulsed output knob enables very accurate setting of the frequency, and the faster you turn it the even faster the frequency changes.
    It has all manner of password control and memories which might not be that helpful in a home shop but would be handy in a multi user workshop.

    So all in all, a good unit by the look of it.
    The manual is reasonable well written and in the short time I have been reading it I have not found any spelling/grammatical errors.
    If it has one fault, it's the very large number of programmable commands that would make it almost intractable for most novices to get their head around.
    I'm still getting my head around the "wobbulator" function.
    It's about the same level of complexity as the 3p-3P 7.5HP Honeywell VFD but the manual for that has a handy set of programming examples and generic setups described in a separate manual.

  13. #12
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    Note it has two screen read outs, the keyboard is removable and can be remotely connected via a cat 5 cable, any programing can be down loaded into the keyboard and that keyboard installed into another VFD and uploaded into that VFD. It leaves a Huanyang for dead with its features and I have used both. There is also a mini series that is ideal for operating a drill press or similar. In all the years I have been using them the factory has never failed to answer any queries and I have never had an email not responded to, just an awesome company to work with and I have even had then ring me when necessary much to my surprise.
    CHRIS

  14. #13
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    This thread has been a great read so far. Mostly finished with the VFD work on my jointer, have it all wired and working the way I want so I just need to find the best mounting location for it.



    Running three wires from the control circuit on my HY series to the switchbox (12v, FWD, GND) - Green led is for VFD power and the toggle switch turns the motor on and off. Documentation isn't great but it's easy to set up if you can read the control circuit diagram. Can definitely see a Powtran in my future, the extra options look perfect for upgrading my lathe.

  15. #14
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    Thanks Bob for taking the time to explain all the intricacies. It is so handy to have the information in one place.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #15
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    Didn't like the look of the wires just poking out the rubber grommets on the Huanyang so I decided to replace them with some proper cable glands. Required drilling two extra holes in the bottom of the VFD but I think it was worth it from a safety point of view, looks a hell of a lot nicer too.



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