Thread: BackSaw Bug (a strain of the Tool Bug)

Originally Posted by lightwood

Kevin,
looking very nice!
I had the chance to watch Ray put together a saw recently, and although he explained what he was doing, and gave a running commentary, like watching anyone skilled at handwork, it was interesting to watch for the things he did without thinking, and perhaps didn't even realize he was doing. How he held the tools, the orientation of the work, and especially a treat to see how experience enabled him to free-hand layout, and see ahead what was needed, the order of work I guess.

Great to see more tools being made!

Regards,
Peter..who might finish a saw before Christmas also

Peter

You are so right. It is why an old-fashioned apprenticeship was both so long and so unstructured. You had to spend 7 years just picking up knowledge in the atmosphere.

The recently re-issued book on apprenticeship, The Joiner and the Cabinet Maker (available from Tools for Working Wood - I have no affiliation, but enjoyed reading it) makes the point - the apprentice did nothing for his first year or two except tidy up , keep the fire up and the glue pot full and ready for use whenever required, but should observe what the journeymen were doing and how the were doing it, to prepare himself for his opportunity.

Originally Posted by lightwood

Kevin,
looking very nice!
I had the chance to watch Ray put together a saw recently, and although he explained what he was doing, and gave a running commentary, like watching anyone skilled at handwork, it was interesting to watch for the things he did without thinking, and perhaps didn't even realize he was doing. How he held the tools, the orientation of the work, and especially a treat to see how experience enabled him to free-hand layout, and see ahead what was needed, the order of work I guess.

Great to see more tools being made!

Regards,
Peter..who might finish a saw before Christmas also

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that, I got a real kick out of reading those comments. I was tempted to remind you of our unspoken contract, that if I made an infill plane, you would make a saw, but I see you already pre-empted the strike with a "might finish before Christmas..." Waiting with bated breath.....

I enjoyed watching you make the name stamp, you made it look easy. But I know that it takes 30 years of making fine Jewellery to make it look that easy.

Kev,

Those handles look beautiful, I have no doubt that a day or so in the workshop, you'll have a saw to be proud of. Nothing quite as satisfying as making stuff with tools that you've tailored to suit yourself.

Can I get your wife to have a chat with a few of my Grandkids looking for gift ideas!

Regards
Ray

Hi Folks,
thanks for the feed back. You lot are the inspiration for all of this.

I got a buzz from the few hours I spend in your company a little while ago Peter and I'm sure that most of the apprentices you have had over the years will have also learnt a lot from your unspoken instruction. I have learnt so much from others by association and I wish I could find more time to listen, observe, try and do. (So many things to refine already).
Thanks for the vote of confidence Ray. I'll try to have one done by the end of next week.
Any others out there who were in the first plate buy made a saw or two yet? Or am I the only slack one.
All the best
Kevin
PS I have cut two Blackwood handles on the bandsaw this morning.
(I don't like report and exam time so I do a little PD to break up the day)

Hi Kevin

This ...



... is a beautiful handle.

I'm looking forward to seeing it all together.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Kevin,

sorry for being late. These are extreme beautiful handles.



The wood ist perfekt and so is workmanship.

One thing i strongly recommend: Cut the Mortise and the slot for the blade first. I learn it the hard way that these are the most difficult tasks in Handle making. You can easily destroy the work o several hours with on little error.

Cheers
Pedder

Thanks for the encouragement guys.
I'm happy that I can shape the handles now and I think I've got the overall size and shape happening. The Gidgee handle is the only one I've spent any time on so far so I will make sure I get the blade slots and mortise done before I go much further.
Up until now I've just been getting to know the working characteristics of the various timbers I'm hoping to use. The Gidgee is my favorite so far but much more difficult to work than the pine, myrtle or blackwood.
I have picked up the forstner bits I needed so …
Its coming.
All the best
Kevin

I had an hour or two in the shed today and I've learnt a thing or two about how not to put a saw together. This has been a slow WIP so I may as well show you the stuff ups as well as the happy results as we go.
Given that everyone states that the fitting of the blade and back is the most difficult phase I've focused on the handle blanks and refining the size and shape.
Today I had a go at fitting the blade and back to one of the blackwood blanks.

At first glance, not too bad. Blade and back seem to fit well enough.


But...

I didn't get the split nuts lined up 100%, I used a Whitney punch to cut the holes through the blade. I was out by a little bit with one of the holes. I should have filed the hole with a needle file or diamond file or with a die grinder. Hey, I always said it was a learning process.
I did what any kid would have done. I just pushed a little harder, and then a little harder again. (0.020" spring steel can make a mess of brass split nuts given half a chance)



OK, I made a recovery but it has come at a cost. I now have to finish and refine the handle with the blade fixed firmly in place. Another lesson, you can have and do anything if you are prepared to pay the price... I have learnt the hard way.
So I'm going to have to work a little harder on this one to make it look pretty but if I get the fangs right it should still be a user.
I am determined to have a pretty, functional tool by the end of the week.
I'll keep you posted in this long, slow process. I'm a little slow, life gets in the way of shed time sometimes but I wouldn't change it.
thanks for looking
Kevin

All of life's a learning curve, Kev!

My first couple of attempts at fitting handles were not too hot, either. In those cases I was fitting blades that were already drilled, which takes even more concentration, plus a bit of guess-work. Making neat holes free of dimpling in spring steel is a bit of a challenge, isn't it? After ruining several HSS drills I went out & bought a couple of those 'cobalt' drills - a small one for a pilot hole, and another the size of the bolts. After I have cut the blade slot & the wider slot for the spine, I set them all up nicely & use the full-sized drill through the already drilled handle holes to mark the centres on the blade. At this stage I have the spine as a loose fit on the blade, so it's easy to take it off, set up the blade in the drill press, nice & flat on a good hardwood backing, drill the pilot holes, then finish to size. However, with all the care in the world, an occasional hole does get slightly out of line, so a judicious bit of cleaning with a small chainsaw file is called-for.

You'll find it pays to make small saws so that handles are easily removed, 'cos it's so much easier to sharpen them with handles off. Most vices won't hold the full blade with handles on, leaving 30-50mm of blade at the heel in mid-air. That makes for some screechy, difficult filing, so you are going to have a few more choice words to say before this one is sawing wood!

I'm a bit further down the road than you, which means I've made a few more blunders, but the last few saws I made went together very smoothly, so I must have learnt a little bit along the way. Persistence pays, eventually.......


Cheers,

Hi Kev,

Those handles are looking pretty good ... you've pretty well mastered that part of the process..

Inletting the brass back and fitting the blade is just a matter of a bit of practice, and doing things in a sequence that makes it easier. I punch the holes first and then transfer those to the handle, that way it always lines up.

Cutting the slot for the blade and keeping it nice and square, requires a bit of practice, and patience, it might take a few goes.

I'm pretty sure you've read this before, but it might help some others (?)
Saw Handle Making Tutorial

Keep at it, you're looking good so far...

Regards
Ray

Thanks to all for the inspiration and help with making my little saw.
I was able to recover from all of my little errors along the way and I've learnt a thing or two along the way.
8" canted blade 0.020" thick
16tpi
blackwood handle
3 coats of shelac

I've been using it for 6 weeks and I'm happy overall. I'm sure I'll do a better job on the next few.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about the progress. Life gets in the way of many things.
All the best
Kevin

Hi Kevin

My compliments. That looks most excellent. Indeed!

You really came up trumps on the handle. Wonderful combination of shaping and timber. It looks very comfy. And the teeth look fine from here!

Looking forward to the next one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yep - looks like a saw to me, & a good one too!

Oh dear, looks like a severe case of saw-itis, - already thinking of the next & the next & this one's barely run in....

Thanks for the kind words Derek and Ian.
From a distance....without glasses.... those teeth are mighty fine.But...
Up close and personal....well they cut well enough but this tool is going to be my test bed for sharpening so Its going to be refined a few times in the next few weeks.
I think I have to cut a few more sets and sharpen a few more times before it cuts as well as that little DT saw that you have made for me Ian.(Sweet tool that one)
Watch this space in the next few weeks...
My Mrs can't understand why I would want more than one of any tool ....
Ray, Ian, Derek,Peter and Bob.....you are a bad influence l
Thanks so much
more to come
Kevin

Kevin - if your first set of teeth cut even half decently, you are in the game! I reckon by saw # 3 or 4 you'll be challenging the Wenzloffs.

I made several sets of teeth before it started coming together for me, but it eventually happens. Its just a matter of being methodical & consistent, & checking as you go. You'll be able to correct a few wayward teeth quite easily after a bit more practice.

Practice is the key, of course, & why I ended up making so many saws last year - by the time I went back & revisited the teeth on some of my earlier efforts, I must have shaped & sharpened more than 30 sets. It's also best for me if I can do the whole process of shaping, setting & sharpening in one go without any interruptions. I feel reasonably confident about sharpening a small saw now, but am well-aware I am still a rank beginner. Being able to see properly is my main limiting factor - I could not do anything these days without my head-band magnifier!

Cheers,