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  1. #1
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    Default Bloodwood Gents saw .5 mm

    My .5 mm Gents Saw.

    Was reluctant to start this thread, but you only live once, an the worst that can happen is i read some words.

    So I must have mentioned in the Plane challenge that I was going to make a saw next,well Iím going to make a saw next!.

    It would seem possible, some digression on the realms off saw plate thickness, ie should I go thinner or thicker???.

    But just a covenant if you agree, not to hassle me if I start something and donít finish it [emoji6][emoji6].

    What Iím planning on doing is using some 0.5 mm 1095 spring steel(020 thou for the old timers hear,groan).
    Sharpened to 14 PPI(13 TPI) cross cut.
    Handle is to be loosely based around A London pattern design in Bloodwood.
    Saw back to be 01 Tool steel with a Matt twist!!.
    Iím more than happy for the vagabonds who frequent the Den hear,who would like to have an in depth discussion on the merits of me making a saw, sorry I mean the virtues of saw plate thickness as long as you play nicely.
    Some saw files may unfortunately be damaged in this making of this saw [emoji20].

    More too come from me soon.

    Cheers Matt.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  3. #2
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    Looking forwards to seeing this Matt; but I'm a bit confused about the saw back. Do you mean you're using the same O1 tool steel that a normal person would use for a plane blade or chisel?

    "with a Matt twist" hints that the back may be dual purpose; terminating at the toe with a chisel end perhaps? That way you wouldn't have to swap between tools when cutting dovetails...
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    Looking forwards to seeing this Matt; but I'm a bit confused about the saw back. Do you mean you're using the same O1 tool steel that a normal person would use for a plane blade or chisel?

    "with a Matt twist" hints that the back may be dual purpose; terminating at the toe with a chisel end perhaps? That way you wouldn't have to swap between tools when cutting dovetails... :rolleyes
    Hi Chief,
    Wow having you hear, is kind of like having Royalty pop into have a look.

    Yes the back will be made from a piece of 01 Tool steel, with me getting a little creative on the Back(But havenít worked out all the details yet)

    Immm not to keen on saw chisel kind of thingy [emoji6].

    Cheers Matt.

  5. #4
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    Hi Matt. I like what I'm reading. When you say gents saw are you thinking turned handle with facets?

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    Hi Matt. I like what I'm reading. When you say gents saw are you thinking turned handle with facets?
    Hi MA,
    Ye basically take your garden variety London pattern chisel, knock out the chisel bit, and bin it.
    An stick a Gents Saw plate with an over long back into the London Pattern handle.

    Cheers Matt.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post

    It would seem possible, some digression on the realms off saw plate thickness, ie should I go thinner or thicker???.
    Matt, it sounds like you are making a saw in the western tradition, on which I know nothing, so no comment there.

    But, if thinness of kerf is what you are after and you don't mind pulling it, Japanese super fine saws can go down to 0.1mm.

    TL-H-FCSW1 : Super Fine Cut Saws | HOSCO-INTERNATIONAL

    They are like foil and do not have much depth of cut at that plate thickness.

    Filing the teeth at 0.6mm pitch would be challenging!
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  8. #7
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    Matt

    I have included the table below to get some idea of what we are talking about seeing as how we have both imperial and metric advocates. There are a few examples of gents saws for you but none with the exact handle you are contemplating.


    American wire gauge Inches MM.
    26g .016 0.4
    25g .018 0.45
    24g .020 0.51
    22g .025 0.64
    21g .028 0.72
    20g .032 0.812
    19g .036 0.911
    18g .040 1.02
    17g .045 1.15
    16g .051 1.29

    A 26" handsaw will typically be be 19g or .036". A panel saw (24" or less) will start at .032" (20g) going down to maybe .028" (21g) at the smallest end around 18". Big saws 28" or more will be .040" (18g)

    These are some catalogue pix from 1916 and 1923 for Simonds. I included the second pic as the Pattern Makers saw had dispensed with those long pointy teeth and reverted to the normal 60deg configuration. The Pattern makers saw, without the benefit of the rigid spine has a noticeably thicker saw plate even in this diminutive saw. The dovetail saws at .016" (26g) are thinner than I had remembered.

    Simonds plate thicknesses 1916.jpg


    Simonds plate thickness 1923.jpg

    and some more information from 1923 for E.C. Atkins. Often the Gents style saws are recommended in the literature for light work only. Some rare backsaw plate details there too, although they are a little vague.

    E.C. Atkins olate thickness 1923.jpg

    We can't leave Disston out of this discussion but the story is similar (from 1921):

    Disston plate thickness 1921.jpg

    The stair builder's saw looks like it could be used as a basis for a kerfing saw. I may post that in one of the frame saw threads as a suggested style.

    Disston plate thickness back saws 1921 p1.jpgDisston plate thickness back saws 1921 p2.jpg

    The 19g referred to for the mitre saw is not especially thin, but more reflects Disston's flair for marketing.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    Matt, it sounds like you are making a saw in the western tradition, on which I know nothing, so no comment there.

    But, if thinness of kerf is what you are after and you don't mind pulling it, Japanese super fine saws can go down to 0.1mm.

    TL-H-FCSW1 : Super Fine Cut Saws | HOSCO-INTERNATIONAL

    They are like foil and do not have not much depth of cut at that plate thickness.

    Filing the teeth at 0.6mm pitch would be challenging!
    Hi Neil,

    Yep Iím just making a Gents saw, in other threads we were talking about plate size.

    Iím mostly of the opinion that .5 mm plate thickness is fine enough.

    Cheers Matt.

  10. #9
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    Hi Paul. Thanks for the chart. It's nice to be able to convert. Glad I don't have to trench my stringers with a saw and chisel. This one instance where a router and jig really make things easier

  11. #10
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    Spent sometime getting my design into a more formal drawing this morning, so this may help eliminate some of the confusion I may have unintentionally caused.
    This is a work in progress, so nothings set in Bloodwood or steel yet.


    Cheers Matt

  12. #11
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    Matt

    I was looking at the cove shape to the heel of the plate and aesthetically it is very pleasing, but after the first time you catch your delicate Victorian skin on the point you may find yourself rethinking the design. As a display saw it would be superb, but if a user I would be trying to make it more friendly.

    Maybe a very small radius would be enough.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    I was looking at the cove shape to the heel of the plate and aesthetically it is very pleasing, but after the first time you catch your delicate Victorian skin on the point you may find yourself rethinking the design. As a display saw it would be superb, but if a user I would be trying to make it more friendly.
    Not seeing any problem myself; the handle is being made out of BLOODwood
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    Not seeing any problem myself; the handle is being made out of BLOODwood


    And comment is made on my puns!

    At least the leakage won't show up! (until he passes out from blood loss).

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #14
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    Interesting thread will follow this one Matt. Question is though, what files are you going to use to sharpen it?

    Perplexed as to what to purchase. I was thinking Bahco as they're available locally in Gasweld but the saw file report here assessed them pretty extensively.

    Interested to read about a bit of your setup to make saws.

    Cheers
    Nathan

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by delbs View Post
    Interesting thread will follow this one Matt. Question is though, what files are you going to use to sharpen it?

    Perplexed as to what to purchase. I was thinking Bahco as they're available locally in Gasweld but the saw file report here assessed them pretty extensively.

    Interested to read about a bit of your setup to make saws.

    Cheers
    Nathan
    Delis,
    I havenít used the Bahco files from Gasweld, but Iím pretty sure Ian W has and his happy with them, an he has a whole lot more experience than I do when it comes to making and sharpening hand saws.
    I have some 4 inch slim taper files from Blackburn tools.


    But a quick check on Blackburn tools website show there stocking Bacho files now.

    Cheers Matt.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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