Thread: Bloodwood Gents saw .5 mm

Looking forwards to seeing this Matt; but I'm a bit confused about the saw back. Do you mean you're using the same O1 tool steel that a normal person would use for a plane blade or chisel?

"with a Matt twist" hints that the back may be dual purpose; terminating at the toe with a chisel end perhaps? That way you wouldn't have to swap between tools when cutting dovetails...

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Looking forwards to seeing this Matt; but I'm a bit confused about the saw back. Do you mean you're using the same O1 tool steel that a normal person would use for a plane blade or chisel?

"with a Matt twist" hints that the back may be dual purpose; terminating at the toe with a chisel end perhaps? That way you wouldn't have to swap between tools when cutting dovetails... :rolleyes

Hi Chief,
Wow having you hear, is kind of like having Royalty pop into have a look.

Yes the back will be made from a piece of 01 Tool steel, with me getting a little creative on the Back(But haven’t worked out all the details yet)

Immm not to keen on saw chisel kind of thingy [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Hi Matt. I like what I'm reading. When you say gents saw are you thinking turned handle with facets?

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Matt. I like what I'm reading. When you say gents saw are you thinking turned handle with facets?

Hi MA,
Ye basically take your garden variety London pattern chisel, knock out the chisel bit, and bin it.
An stick a Gents Saw plate with an over long back into the London Pattern handle.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

It would seem possible, some digression on the realms off saw plate thickness, ie should I go thinner or thicker???.

Matt, it sounds like you are making a saw in the western tradition, on which I know nothing, so no comment there.

But, if thinness of kerf is what you are after and you don't mind pulling it, Japanese super fine saws can go down to 0.1mm.

TL-H-FCSW1 : Super Fine Cut Saws | HOSCO-INTERNATIONAL

They are like foil and do not have much depth of cut at that plate thickness.

Filing the teeth at 0.6mm pitch would be challenging!

Matt

I have included the table below to get some idea of what we are talking about seeing as how we have both imperial and metric advocates. There are a few examples of gents saws for you but none with the exact handle you are contemplating.

American wire gauge	Inches	MM.
26g	.016	0.4
25g	.018	0.45
24g	.020	0.51
22g	.025	0.64
21g	.028	0.72
20g	.032	0.812
19g	.036	0.911
18g	.040	1.02
17g	.045	1.15
16g	.051	1.29

A 26" handsaw will typically be be 19g or .036". A panel saw (24" or less) will start at .032" (20g) going down to maybe .028" (21g) at the smallest end around 18". Big saws 28" or more will be .040" (18g)

These are some catalogue pix from 1916 and 1923 for Simonds. I included the second pic as the Pattern Makers saw had dispensed with those long pointy teeth and reverted to the normal 60deg configuration. The Pattern makers saw, without the benefit of the rigid spine has a noticeably thicker saw plate even in this diminutive saw. The dovetail saws at .016" (26g) are thinner than I had remembered.

Simonds plate thicknesses 1916.jpg


Simonds plate thickness 1923.jpg

and some more information from 1923 for E.C. Atkins. Often the Gents style saws are recommended in the literature for light work only. Some rare backsaw plate details there too, although they are a little vague.

E.C. Atkins olate thickness 1923.jpg

We can't leave Disston out of this discussion but the story is similar (from 1921):

Disston plate thickness 1921.jpg

The stair builder's saw looks like it could be used as a basis for a kerfing saw. I may post that in one of the frame saw threads as a suggested style.

Disston plate thickness back saws 1921 p1.jpgDisston plate thickness back saws 1921 p2.jpg

The 19g referred to for the mitre saw is not especially thin, but more reflects Disston's flair for marketing.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by NeilS

Matt, it sounds like you are making a saw in the western tradition, on which I know nothing, so no comment there.

But, if thinness of kerf is what you are after and you don't mind pulling it, Japanese super fine saws can go down to 0.1mm.

TL-H-FCSW1 : Super Fine Cut Saws | HOSCO-INTERNATIONAL

They are like foil and do not have not much depth of cut at that plate thickness.

Filing the teeth at 0.6mm pitch would be challenging!

Hi Neil,

Yep I’m just making a Gents saw, in other threads we were talking about plate size.

I’m mostly of the opinion that .5 mm plate thickness is fine enough.

Cheers Matt.

Hi Paul. Thanks for the chart. It's nice to be able to convert. Glad I don't have to trench my stringers with a saw and chisel. This one instance where a router and jig really make things easier

Spent sometime getting my design into a more formal drawing this morning, so this may help eliminate some of the confusion I may have unintentionally caused.
This is a work in progress, so nothings set in Bloodwood or steel yet.


Cheers Matt

Matt

I was looking at the cove shape to the heel of the plate and aesthetically it is very pleasing, but after the first time you catch your delicate Victorian skin on the point you may find yourself rethinking the design. As a display saw it would be superb, but if a user I would be trying to make it more friendly.

Maybe a very small radius would be enough.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I was looking at the cove shape to the heel of the plate and aesthetically it is very pleasing, but after the first time you catch your delicate Victorian skin on the point you may find yourself rethinking the design. As a display saw it would be superb, but if a user I would be trying to make it more friendly.

Not seeing any problem myself; the handle is being made out of BLOODwood

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Not seeing any problem myself; the handle is being made out of BLOODwood

And comment is made on my puns!

At least the leakage won't show up! (until he passes out from blood loss).

Regards
Paul

Interesting thread will follow this one Matt. Question is though, what files are you going to use to sharpen it?

Perplexed as to what to purchase. I was thinking Bahco as they're available locally in Gasweld but the saw file report here assessed them pretty extensively.

Interested to read about a bit of your setup to make saws.

Cheers
Nathan

Originally Posted by delbs

Interesting thread will follow this one Matt. Question is though, what files are you going to use to sharpen it?

Perplexed as to what to purchase. I was thinking Bahco as they're available locally in Gasweld but the saw file report here assessed them pretty extensively.

Interested to read about a bit of your setup to make saws.

Cheers
Nathan

Delis,
I haven’t used the Bahco files from Gasweld, but I’m pretty sure Ian W has and his happy with them, an he has a whole lot more experience than I do when it comes to making and sharpening hand saws.
I have some 4 inch slim taper files from Blackburn tools.


But a quick check on Blackburn tools website show there stocking Bacho files now.

Cheers Matt.


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