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  1. #16
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    Default

    Not sure who is the craziest
    you for this undertaking or me for reading and following along!

    Those handles look to be a nice shape

    A Gidgee handle should ensure that the saw doesn't float away
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

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  3. #17
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    Paul, I think this WIP will be "IP" for quite a while! Having made a facsimile of the littlest Kenyon in your project, I know how much filing you are going to have to do to get that monster back looking like it was folded. I was wondering if one of those 'dreadnought' style files for softer metals would be better for the roughing-down stage. Any thoughts, Matt??

    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    ...Now that you mention it, I have never seen a sawhandle made of gidgee either.....
    I guess you both missed these, then? Here & here.

    Gidgee is a bit tough on saws and plane blades, but rasps, scrapes and sands very well, imo. In fact, I would far rather use Gidgee than a few other less hard woods I've tried. It finishes quite easily, you can move quickly to the next grit size without having lots of residual scratches. I sand to 400 (cloth-backed paper) then give the surface a good rub-down with 0000 steel wool. The resulting surface is lovely, with the deep lustre that so many Acacias have when polished.

    One of the most difficult woods I've used for handles is Myrtle Beech. Easy to saw & plane, but is difficult to scrape really well (needs a very sharp scraper with a really fine burr) and you have to work through every grit size carefully to eliminate scratches. Stewie (Planemaker) loves Tiger Myrtle, but he must be far more patient than I, or know some secrets to working with the stuff. A couple of TM handles I made a few years back nearly drove me nuts - I think I polished the handles 3 times before I'd got rid of every little scratch or rasp-mark. The one on the right is TM, the one on the left is from one of the few sound bits of Hairy Oak I've managed to find that was large enough to squeeze a handle from:
    12 inch tenon & carcase.jpg

    They did look ok when I finally made it, though.

    Cheers,
    IW

  4. #18
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    Default A Crazy Saw Service

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Paul, I think this WIP will be "IP" for quite a while! Having made a facsimile of the littlest Kenyon in your project, I know how much filing you are going to have to do to get that monster back looking like it was folded. I was wondering if one of those 'dreadnought' style files for softer metals would be better for the roughing-down stage. Any thoughts, Matt??


    Yes as Ian has suggested,if I was attempting the task at hand, I would be first using a dreadnought file or what I call a body file or body mans file.
    But remember the file is designed to be attached to a holder either ridged or a flexible one.Not hand held.
    Considering Paul is attempting to create the effect of the brass being folded.
    So in effect creating a small radius on the top of the back.
    I think you may find the dreadnought file will whip that amount of material of quite quickly.
    I would be leaning on the side of being gentle,till you have become accustomed to how aggressive the file can cut in this situation.
    Normally if the file is being used in a auto motive situation the whole breast of the file will be being used over the entire panel.
    Also they are not really removing a lot of metal just a light skim to show high and low spots in a dent.
    Saying that I have used them to do what Paul is going to do on his saw backs quite successfully.
    So In answering to Ian,s question, yes I would, but I would also think a bastard file would work quite well too.

    Especially if used in the draw file way.
    The other thing is, use plenty of engineers blue to keep an eye on progress.
    Finally, I would make a small purpose sanding block apiece of pine with the radius drilled out then the sides cut down to the radius with a piece of sandpaper insert to run up and down the spine once the filing has been done.

    The other thing I do, or maybe that should be past tense because I havenít for ages,(moan), is actually holding the spine while all this filling and sanding and possibly polishing is going on.

    I use a bit of 90/35 mm pine about 500 mm long held in my vice with the saw back laying on its side on top of the pine.
    I use two bits of scrap saw plate inserted into each end of the plate by about 30/40 mm 10/13 mm wide( the measurements need only be ruff).
    With ruffle the same amount sticking out the ends,this I then screw down to the pine with counter sink screws at each end.
    I find this holds the plate still enough to draw file but is quick enough to remove to check progress.
    Which needs doing often.


    This is the holders i use
    Thanks you google.








    Hope that makes sense and helps out.

    Paul, have you noticed I havenít try to run this thread of course ďyetĒ?

    Cheers Matt.

  5. #19
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    Matt

    Thank you for your restraint in not taking over the thread. Actually, tonight I am more than happy for you to take over as I am back on shift and these twelve hour stints leave very little time for life's important tasks. This evening I arrived home around 1915 hrs full of good intentions and maybe one bad intention as well and after an evening meal and noting the ambient temp declining rapidly all of those intentions went out the window.

    With the brass backs, and I will have to post some pix together with the delightful bespoke split nuts that Ian made up as they were unusual sizes by modern standards, I have a number of strategies, plus each of the four backs was a slightly different size. This means I have to cut down the width first and then shape to replicate the folded back after that. This body tool to which you refer above. Is it a bit like this?

    P1040169 (Medium).JPGP1040170 (Medium).JPG

    I trust that this is the device to which you refer because I rushed out of the warm house into the cold, cold shed to retrieve this little beastie. Please note the manufacturer's name. I have also made the pictures larger to compensate for the lack of illustrations.

    A bit more on Wednesday, when I have my changeover day (that is nothing to do with my appearance: I just go to nights instead of days). I have to complete a commission for a customer, fix up some revised house guttering in anticipation of the big wet and then with luck I will have a few minutes left over to update the Kenyon saga.

    Regards
    Paul

    Ps. Thanks for the brass hints. I suspect I will use a combination of just about all of them.
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Paul, I think this WIP will be "IP" for quite a while! Having made a facsimile of the littlest Kenyon in your project, I know how much filing you are going to have to do to get that monster back looking like it was folded. I was wondering if one of those 'dreadnought' style files for softer metals would be better for the roughing-down stage. Any thoughts, Matt??



    I guess you both missed these, then? Here & here.


    Cheers,
    Ian

    I hadn't missed them (think I posted) but I had forgotten them. Did I ever tell you about that bloke back in my ancestry, Al Heimer? Thanks for reminding us. (Doug, pay closer attention please .)

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    (Doug, pay closer attention please .)
    Paul, back in the dim distant past (back when they were making saw handles out of Gidgee and posting them on the forum) I had not begun looking at making my own saws so they could have been made of anything and I still would not have noticed them.
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.

  8. #22
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    Matt, I wasn't thinking of your "body files" when I suggested the 'dreadnought'. What I had in mind was one of these. which are built like an ordinary tanged file.

    I guess the body file would do the job, though the teeth on Paul's example are huge & designed for softer material like bog (or lead?) rather than mild steel or brass. Yes, a 10 or 12 inch flat bastard file would rip into brass too, but in my experience the curved teeth of the dreadnought style bite harder & don't clog as easily.

    It was just a suggestion to make the task a bit easier on the body (the one wielding the file), but by the time you tracked down a suitable file, yiu'd probably have the job done with a more readily-available type....

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Matt, I wasn't thinking of your "body files" when I suggested the 'dreadnought'. What I had in mind was one of these. which are built like an ordinary tanged file.

    I guess the body file would do the job, though the teeth on Paul's example are huge & designed for softer material like bog (or lead?) rather than mild steel or brass. Yes, a 10 or 12 inch flat bastard file would rip into brass too, but in my experience the curved teeth of the dreadnought style bite harder & don't clog as easily.

    It was just a suggestion to make the task a bit easier on the body (the one wielding the file), but by the time you tracked down a suitable file, yiu'd probably have the job done with a more readily-available type....

    Cheers,
    Ian,
    Iím sorry [emoji52] I disagree the ďBody file was indeed designed for mild steel not Bog but yes lead.
    Coach builders use too and still do use them.
    They are designed for a fill finish on panels body,work.
    Cars were filed finished long before bog came around.
    Knock your dint up run the file over to show high and low spots.
    Tap tap tap again repeat body filling
    Extra.

    Cheers Matt,
    On my lunch break but should be working [emoji6]

  10. #24
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    Default A Crazy Saw Service

    Paul,Paul!!

    Itís nearly been a full 22 hours since your last post

    Is it wrong to expect a progress report, Iím afraid if we donít get a progress report soon Ian W and my self may go into catastrophic meltdown over which file we believe you should be using.
    And there a micro cracks forming all ready on that one.[emoji849]

    If this ends up happening who knows weíre it will end, next thing poor Brett will be involved doing analysis on dreadnought files and researching the best and cheapest option with possibly group buys and we all know that will never end [emoji849].

    Cheers Matt[emoji849]

  11. #25
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    My apologies Matt

    It's cold and dark outside and apart from touching up a small back saw I have done no more. But tomorrow....

    Is another day: Hopefully there will be something to report.



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #26
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    Yairs Matt, it's all right for you Arctic dwellers who can tolerate sub-zero temperatures, but as you know, we Queenslanders are a bit allergic to working in the fridge.

    A heated/air conditioned shed would be sooo nice.....
    IW

  13. #27
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    Ian summed it up but this is for Doug's request.

    My shed at night in the dark

    P1040171 (Medium).JPG

    and in the cold

    cold shed.jpg

    What did you expect?



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #28
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    I started off with a disaster in that the handle I was rough cutting nearly cut through one of the horns and in doing so went half way through a top horn. My own silly fault. The lighting was poor and I was moving a portable light with one hand while holding the jig saw with the other, but I hadn't switched off the saw. Umm. bad move!

    P1040175 (Medium).JPG

    This is how it should have turned out. Timber is Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle:

    P1040176 (Medium).JPG

    I was being a little more careful now. This one is the unknown eucalypt that we cut down from the yard. It is the same timber as I used to re-handle the Simonds docking saw a while back:

    P1040172 (Medium).JPG

    This one is Forest Red Gum:

    P1040173 (Medium).JPG

    and lastly Ironbark. I'm not really sure which Ironbark but most likely the narrow leaf (e. sideroxylon):

    P1040174 (Medium).JPG

    This is the whole group together and only the hand saw handles are the same size. There are small size differences between the open handle saws and the closed handle back saws:

    P1040178 (Medium).JPG

    Now the handles need to be trimmed to the final size.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #29
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    You're not out of the woods yet, me lad - cutting out the blanks is just the start, and there's many a slip possible before they are done! I chucked at least 5 handles in the firewood box during the making of my recent batch of saws, because of faults that didn't show up until I started shaping them. Two were almost complete, but developed multiple fine cracks during those hot, dry days we had a week or so ago, so they were rejected. The others failed one way or another during shaping - like the return snapping off when I was cutting the lamb's tongue on one.

    Actually, I don't think I've ever had that many rejects in a batch before. I think it's because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for good handle material, which is a good thing in some ways - no more saw plate & no more handle wood = no more saws.....

    Don't know how you plan to go about it, Paul, but my next step is to fit the blades because that's the step that can easily go pear-shaped for me. Once that's done, it's just rasping, sanding scraping, sanding until all the bits that don't look like handle are on the floor. At one stage my right thumb got so sore from rasping I had to do something else for a day or two while some skin grew back!

    All good fun.
    Cheers
    IW

  16. #30
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    Ian

    I realise that the stage I am at is not even a quarter there. After getting the true square shape I cut the kerf for the blade, but this requires the saw plate and back together in the case of the tenon saws. Hand saws are not so much of a problem. Then I go to the hardware and holes for the handle and plate and if all is still good I begin some shaping.

    There is a long way to go.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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