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  1. #91
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    I had always been led to believe that fine threads were stronger particularly in smaller diamaters. However it clearly isn't quite as simple as that. From Wikipedia:

    "Coarse threads are more resistant to stripping and cross threading because they have greater flank engagement. Coarse threads install much faster as they require fewer turns per unit length. Finer threads are stronger as they have a larger stress area for the same diameter thread. Fine threads are less likely to vibrate loose as they have a smaller helix angle and allow finer adjustment. Finer threads develop greater preload with less tightening torque.[5]"

    Life wasn't...... (Thanks to Malcolm F and before him George Bernard Shaw) etc. etc.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post

    Cheers Matt.
    Did he have large boots?
    Matt I have no inside knowledge about the size of any of his body parts

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #93
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    I am not at all convinced about WIPs. They can be like watching paint dry, but perhaps that is my choice of subject. Maybe I should go for something wildly exciting. Perhaps a life size mate for Michaelangelo's David. Except that if I was going to enlarge a part of the anatomy I don't think I would chose her hands and feet. I suppose with David, Mickey could have been less sensitive and made us all cringe with shame so maybe the hands and feet were OK.

    I digress , but also I have to disappoint all those of you who expect that everything is complete. Ummm... Nearly, well actually not even close, but a little more work on the handles with all the saw slots cuts, the holes drilled for the saw screws and preliminary shaping all but complete with some sanding too: But not a lot.

    I thought I would go in at the deep end with the Gidgee handle as I anticipated this being the most difficult of all. I wasn't wrong!

    As I think I mentioned before, I cut some of the bulk off first with a saw. As you can see I don't take too much care: I just try not to go deep!

    P1040257 (Medium).JPG

    Then I get to work with the rasps. I do as much as possible with flat rasps and when they can longer get in I revert to the curved rasps: Two flat and two half round or something (just not flat). This is after the coarse rasps:

    P1040258 (Medium).JPG

    And you've guessed it, after the fine rasps

    P1040259 (Medium).JPG

    Then there comes the sanding. I would be totally lost without the McFarlane Bow Sander. Although it was developed for sanding the curved components of chairs I find it very useful for saw handles too. I only use it on the outer surfaces as it is too fiddly to dismantle it and re-assemble in the hand hole. The paper below is not the recommended paper, but I only had down to 180grit in the preferred papers so I used a type of emery cloth that is more normally intended for metal work.

    P1040264 (Medium).JPG

    I have got down to 240grit on some handles on some parts, but not everywhere. Apart from shaping the cheeks I have not sanded them at all and the lambs tongues still have to be developed.

    P1040265 (Medium).JPG

    I suspected that you would not want to see this process for each handle so here is a groupie as evidence of progress. A few of the tools used are in the pic too just to add to the authenticity. Somewhere under that lot is a workbench, but that is only because I know I put it there.

    P1040272 (Medium).JPG

    I think I may have mentioned in the past that I insert a small piece of waste saw plate in the kerf. In clamping up in the vice it is possible to snap off the cheeks. There is no coming back from that position so better to be safe. The two lower handles still have a bit of metal in them.

    P1040273 (Medium).JPG

    Ypu may remember I damaged the cove or lumpy bit ahead of the top horn on the Gidgee handle (bottom left) and now has a piece glued on ready to be shaped. I first did this last night, but had a disaster in that the two part glue failed: My own fault as it was one of those twin tube thingys and it did not give up equal quantities. I pressed on regardless and I should have know better. Tried again with another epoxy glue. I did not want to stress it too soon so it has not been seriously shaped yet

    P1040269 (Medium).JPG

    Still lots of exciting sanding time to go

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #94
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    I dunno - for someone with a day job to get in the way, you seem to be making pretty good progress to me, Paul...

    Each to his own, but that bow sander looks rather cumbersome to me. I like using strips of cloth-backed paper, which are quick & easy to wrap around any of the curved surfaces of handles. After the rasp, I fair things a bit with 120 grit, then switch to a scraper - sometimes I go straight from rasp to scraper, depending on the wood type.

    Just about the best handle-finishing tool I have is an offcut of 30 thou sawplate, about 100mm long and ~12mm wide (well, it started out that wide, but multiple sharpenings have brought it back to more like 10mm). I rounded the corners so they don't make horrible scratches if they contact a part they're not supposed to. Sharpened up, & with a light burr on each edge, this is far & away the most labour (& dust!) - saving tool I could wish for. If you cut 'downhill' on the endgrain (of which there is a lot on a closed handle!), you can get very clean, smooth surfaces. You can cut the other way, if you use a light touch, & in some areas you have to, but it usually won't give quite as clean a surface. With harder woods like Gidgee, I can usually go straight to 400grit after the scraper and finish the thing off without further ado. But I suspect your Silky oak won't scrape as well as the Gidgee, particularly across end-grain. Softer woods in general don't scrape as cleanly as hard ones, & you just have to work through the grits & sand, sand, sand, to get a flawless surface. Myrtle is a good example of such woods - I always end up finding a few errant scratches when applying the finish on that stuff.

    Cheers
    IW

  6. #95
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    Thanks Ian

    I did get back to some sanding today but not enough to warrant pix. I put in a burst today as I won't be able to do anything over the next few days. The Silky Oak and the Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle are the easiest to work in terms of sanding and the others are "challenging."

    I will have to sort out some scrapers as they are something I have not used before. Fortunately I think I know where I can put my hands on some old sawplate.

    The bow sander is only useful on the outside edges and to some extent on the inside of the open handles too. Having said that, I alternate between three vices for all operations on these handles and it does allow me to chose more comfortable positions than if I had just a vertical vice. The bow sander seems to follow the contours better than just a strip of sand paper. However for the inside of the handle hole there is not much alternative but to use a strip of sandpaper. You have obviously worked out that standard paper does not work too well used in this way as it breaks even when folded double. It has to be cloth backed for extra strength. I use the same paper that is in the bow sander or some emery cloth.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ..... You have obviously worked out that standard paper does not work too well used in this way as it breaks even when folded double. It has to be cloth backed for extra strength. I use the same paper that is in the bow sander or some emery cloth. ....l
    Yep, paper paper is pretty useless under these conditions (except used with a block to sand the flat sides, of course), so cloth-backed is the go. I only 'discovered' the stuff about halfway through my woodworking life. I first bought it to use on the lathe, after struggling with ordinary paper for many years. I suppose it taught me to get things very close to done with the cutting tools so that very little sanding was necessary. I hate the dust & mess, so always look for ways of minimising use of abrasives. Make yourself a narrow scraper and once you get the burr sorted and see how cleanly they cut the harder woods, you'll be an instant convert...

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Make yourself a narrow scraper and once you get the burr sorted and see how cleanly they cut the harder woods, you'll be an instant convert...

    Cheers,
    Damn!

    I knew there was something else I was going to set up this morning in the few hours before we headed off towards the fleshpots of the South. I might still steal a few moments for that.

    In the meantime I pottered in the shed and listened to a pome lawyer talk about his clients that still languish in Guantanamo Bay. His descriptions of the tortures employed and the fact that "waterboarding" was used by the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazis, although they both had different names for it (at least in Spanish and German I suppose), was disturbing to say the least. Enough on that and I have not mentioned it other than to remind people that such things exist, but not to invite further discussion.

    I cleaned the dovetail handle. It is now to the point that only the most glaring defects remain. The horns were slightly modified twice, by necessity, as I managed to drop this handle twice and damage the same horn twice. Very ****ing careless . This timber is the unidentified Eucalypt that was cut down from our front yard. It has turned out to be a most pleasing timber: Not too hard to work and a very fine grain, albeit with little character. So in that regard, very like apple. I can be brave when wearing my Kevlar vest! Besides which, I am not sure if the West Australian missiles have sufficient range to target Millmerran. At least not without refuleing somewhere in the Simpson desert.

    P1040278 (Medium).JPG

    I still have to cut the recess for the back, cut the teeth, drill the holes for the hardware, sand some more and finish the handle. Hell, I'm not even nearly there!

    In copying an original I have found that I am continually referring to pictures so I do not depart too far from the Kenyon saws. It is very easy to follow your own ideas and constantly I have to haul myself back. Also, as I go, I am intrigued by how much I did not really take in.

    P1040279 (Medium).JPG

    Just on the bow sander, I thought I would show how flexible it is. Literally it bends as the paper is not rigid and only moderately tensioned. These pix are on the other open handle saw.

    P1040280 (Medium).JPGP1040281 (Medium).JPGP1040283 (Medium).JPG

    and it can be used with the paper at 90 degs to the frame so more versatile than you might at first expect. The big advantage is using longs strokes.

    P1040284 (Medium).JPGP1040282 (Medium).JPG

    Just while I am on the subject of holding the work pieces, these are the vices I am using:

    Standard vertical vice:

    P1040288 (Medium).JPG


    A horizontal vice:

    P1040289 (Medium).JPG

    and one somewhere in between that is adjustable, although in practice I have set it up and just leave it there.

    P1040290 (Medium).JPGP1040291 (Medium).JPG

    If I want a different position, I adjust how I stand. These last two vices are almost exclusively to hold saw handles, or anything similar that is about 25mm thick, as they have limited ranges of adjustment. All the vices have a leather lining to protect the work and for improved grip.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #98
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    An interesting collection of vises there Paul.
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.

  10. #99
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    Doug

    That is not the complete list of my vices, and there is another in the offing, but with a couple of exceptions it is all I am comfortable talking about.



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #100
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    Interesting that you spell it differently to how I did, Paul.
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    Interesting that you spell it differently to how I did, Paul.
    The scary thing is that he may have spelled that word correctly

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    That is not the complete list of my vices, and there is another in the offing, but with a couple of exceptions it is all I am comfortable talking about.
    For the sake of decency then; NO PICTURES!!!

    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ......and one somewhere in between that is adjustable, although in practice I have set it up and just leave it there.

    P1040290 (Medium).JPGP1040291 (Medium).JPG ......
    Hey, I really like that towball vise Paul (vise/vice both spellings acceptable, according to which dictionaries you consult, Tiff ). Been thinking about making something similar in wood but the round tuit's been mislaid somewhere. I can't see if you have any quick way of loosening the plate clamping the ball - if you have to reach for a spanner each time you need to adjust the position, I can see why you tend to move yourself rather than the vise.

    I hand-hold for a lot of the initial rasping (which occasionally results in some rather severe fingernail trims!), but where more secure holding is needed, the tail vise has the right orientation to do most of that: handle shaping a.jpg

    Particularly for sawing the blade slot & chopping out the recess for the spine: recessing spine.jpg

    I had to keep a pic of the Kenyon I was copying in front of me when I was making mine, too. As you say, it's quite easy to get carried away & end up with a handle that's nothing like the one you're trying to copy. I've evolved my own style of handle over the years, so it was all too easy to start making a Wilkut handle instead of a Kenyon! I especially had to resist over-rounding the grip. I like to put a more elliptical shape on the grip, which also varies from bottom to top, becoming quite an acute ellipse under the curve of the horn, to fit between thumb & forefinger better. But the Kenyons have a more consistent round-over both front & back, so I had to discipline myself to follow the model & not ad lib...

    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    The scary thing is that he may have spelled that word correctly



    For the sake of decency then; NO PICTURES!!!



    OK Chief. I think the over sensitive nature of the readers may not be up to the visuals. One exception is still to be explored, but that will have to wait for another day even though I have made a start on it.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #104
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    Ian

    Unfortunately there is no quick clamp mechanism on the blue vice. In fact the four long nuts (think they are called coupling nuts) all have to be adjusted by hand with a spanner. I am fortunate in having the red vice too otherwise there could be potentially some gnashing of teeth.

    I am pleased to hear that you had to refer constantly to the pix also, which means I am not alone in this regard. In fact one aspect that only became apparent to me as I was shaping the handle is how much the sweep of the horns is brought to the very edge. It gives them a very refined appearance and although through the thickness of the handle there is quite a bit of wood there, the very edges are susceptible to damage as a consequence.

    I like this look, but I will have to take more care than I have in the past bearing in mind that, like your saws, these are destined to be users. When I first rough cut the shapes I of course held them in my hand and immediately thought "*&^%." On the two open handles in particular it seemed that my hand was going to be subjected to severe bouts of cramps with possible long term paralysis.

    My fears are unfounded as with rounding of the grip and the sweep of the horns even the smaller handle seems quite comfortable. There is plenty of room and the horns feel really snug around my hand. I may take a pic to demonstrate when I return to the workshop as after three days away my hands my be clean enough for a photo session. I have to conclude that the Kenyon people knew absolutely what they were doing.

    If a person had an exceptionally large hand (Michelangelo's David comes to mind here) then there might be an issue, but that same person would have an issue with almost any saw made before WW1.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ...... When I first rough cut the shapes I of course held them in my hand and immediately thought "*&^%." On the two open handles in particular it seemed that my hand was going to be subjected to severe bouts of cramps with possible long term paralysis.

    My fears are unfounded as with rounding of the grip and the sweep of the horns even the smaller handle seems quite comfortable. There is plenty of room and the horns feel really snug around my hand....
    Had that same feeling early on in my handle-making, Paul. Holding the freshly-cut blank in your hand is certainly not very reassuring, but as each stage of the shaping proceeds, you start to get the picture, though I'm still amazed at the transformation!

    Mr. Kenyon certainly made a statement with the horns on his handles. As you noted, the shaping makes them look even more delicate than they are, but they still come to a very fine tip that wouldn't tolerate rough treatment. Compare the profile of the horn on this handle, which is traced from your template for the smallest Kenyon...... bolt heads flushed.jpg
    ...with this one, which is a copy of an old pre-WW2 Disston. It has a couple of non-Disstonian details, but the basic profile is as per the original: Handle 2.jpg
    Besides being shorter, the horn is much thicker from start to finish. It looks really chunky when first cut out, but takes on a more refined look when shaped. Both top & bottom surfaces are rounded, which adds to the perception of slimness on the finished article. But I think this one might survive a bit of rough handling better than he Kenyon style!

    And while I was looking for those pics, I came across a pic of some saw bolts from an old English backsaw, circa 1870s (estimated) that I restored a while back. :B&S saw bolts.jpg

    You can see they are cast & no two quite alike, but note the full taper of the heads (the nuts are the same but you can't see that). Also note how the driver slot is way off-centre on two of them. I've found that to be a pretty common thing on old saws - they obviously didn't fuss too much over such minor details. And yes, I had to deepen the slots a bit, the originals had been almost sanded away, making it very difficult to remove two of them without damage.....

    Cheers,
    IW

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