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  1. #106
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    Thanks for those pix Ian.

    It graphically illustrates the limitations of the early split nuts and also why such great care is required to remove them from a saw. The Kenyon saws have not had their handles removed, probably for that very reason.

    I did take some pix this morning to illustrate how even the smallest handle fits my hand, despite my earlier misgivings. The horns literally curl around my hand at the top and nestle into the flashy heel of the hand on the lower horn. I would like to tell you all that I deliberately played for this, but the truth is that this is how it came up thanks to John Kenyon and Co:

    P1040300 (Medium).JPGP1040298 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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  3. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Paul, I think this WIP will be "IP" for quite a while! Having made a facsimile of the littlest Kenyon in your project, I know how much filing you are going to have to do to get that monster back looking like it was folded. I was wondering if one of those 'dreadnought' style files for softer metals would be better for the roughing-down stage. Any thoughts, Matt??



    I guess you both missed these, then? Here & here.

    Gidgee is a bit tough on saws and plane blades, but rasps, scrapes and sands very well, imo. In fact, I would far rather use Gidgee than a few other less hard woods I've tried. It finishes quite easily, you can move quickly to the next grit size without having lots of residual scratches. I sand to 400 (cloth-backed paper) then give the surface a good rub-down with 0000 steel wool. The resulting surface is lovely, with the deep lustre that so many Acacias have when polished.

    One of the most difficult woods I've used for handles is Myrtle Beech. Easy to saw & plane, but is difficult to scrape really well (needs a very sharp scraper with a really fine burr) and you have to work through every grit size carefully to eliminate scratches. Stewie (Planemaker) loves Tiger Myrtle, but he must be far more patient than I, or know some secrets to working with the stuff. A couple of TM handles I made a few years back nearly drove me nuts - I think I polished the handles 3 times before I'd got rid of every little scratch or rasp-mark. The one on the right is TM, the one on the left is from one of the few sound bits of Hairy Oak I've managed to find that was large enough to squeeze a handle from:
    Attachment 440978

    They did look ok when I finally made it, though.

    Cheers,

  4. #108
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    Oooh...I like it,

    But has the pic been reversed? There seems to be an absence of slotted nut. And, no don't tell me, that's your Tiger Myrtle! The lambs tongue design is such a classic.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #109
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    Paul; have a guess who is left handed.


  6. #110
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    Paul; you may want to consider the following for installing your saw bolt assemblies;

    https://www.trenddirectuk.com/cb12-316tc

    Blackburn Tools - Solid carbide spade drill bits

  7. #111
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    Thanks for those links Stewie

    The Trend bits look excellent except that they won't suit the non standard size saw screws of the "Kenyons." That is why I modified some spade bits earlier on in the thread. They work well enough but are nowhere near as nice as a counterbore and of course slower.

    The Blackburn Tools drills look good, but again not quite so applicable for this particular set of saws. In recent times I have used tungsten carbide tile drills reasonable successfully. What I plan to do is drill the holes undersize and then ream them to fit. As four of the saws have only two screws it is going to be important that there is no play whatsoever. The big advantage of three or more screws is that one can be a little off. I am frequently surprised at how many of the saw plates were drilled by the manufacturer and almost completely missed the plate or partially missed and they were still let through!

    Just on Blackburn tools, I have contacted him twice in recent times regarding wanting to purchase his products and had no reply at all. This doesn't encourage me to deal with him: Having said that, I did hear that the boss (Issac?) had some serious health issues so that may be the reason.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    ....... The Blackburn Tools drills look good, but again not quite so applicable for this particular set of saws.

    ...... As four of the saws have only two screws it is going to be important that there is no play whatsoever. The big advantage of three or more screws is that one can be a little off. I am frequently surprised at how many of the saw plates were drilled by the manufacturer and almost completely missed the plate or partially missed and they were still let through!
    Yes Paul, out of habit, I made the shafts of your bolts 5mm (an Imperial size would've been more 'genuine'). While 5mm is close to 3/16", it's just enough more that there is no way a 5mm bolt will go through a 3/16" diameter hole in metal, unfortunately. There are several ways to deal with this, though. If you only have a 3/16 bit, you can drill the hole undersize, then ream it with a 5mm chainsaw file. I occasionally have to ream one of the holes a little on the 3-bolters to get all of the bolts to fit cleanly, and chainsaw files are my weapon of choice.

    Another alternative is to use a 5mm Sutton 'builders bit' (the ones with blue paint in the lands). These are carbide tipped & will drill quite a few holes in spring steel. You need to use a sharp centre-punch to put a distinct dimple where you want the hole, or they are liable to skate. And don't use any lubricant. I did that with my first one and the bit trashed itself in a single hole, but used dry they last quite well.

    I don't know when manufacturers started punching the plates in situ, but punched plates are usually rock-solid- even with the bolts removed, thanks to the flared holes. However, on older saws, I've come across oversized holes on a goodly number. I wonder how the latter came about - it's unlikely due to the plates being loose - that would tend to chop the brass bolts through rather than enlarge the holes in the steel plate?? (Edit: Meant to say it implies to me that the person assembling the saw got the holes off a bit & had to ream them out to get the bolts through. No reason to believe we're any more skillful at making mistakes than our forbears.. )

    Oversize holes won't necessarily cause the saw to be loose, because the bolts should tighten the cheeks against the plate & hold it firmly enough for practical purposes, but sometimes you run out of thread before the bolts will tighten sufficiently. That's usually because folks before you have screwed them down to the limit trying to stop the saws rattling. I have struck this more than once with the cupped nuts that replaced the split type nuts, there aren't many turns of spare thread in those! The only solution is to put a washer under the nut but to do that neatly, you usually have to faff about making one up, because standard washers with a hole big enough to go around the outer shank of the nut are too big to fit in the recess.....


    I too have noted how erratic the holes in the plate can be, with rear holes sometimes barely in the plate (and as often as not, with a stress crack between hole & edge). At least one saw I refurbished had a half-hole but I haven't encountered any where they missed the plate altogether, yet. I suppose a QC inspector can't see what is inside the handle?

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #113
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    Paul,
    I have abousulty nothing to say,seriously.
    Because between your self, and Ian your covering all the bases and providing a fantastic thread story to follow.
    So please just continue on,and donít get hung up WIP there just for people who like to see letters high lite for there egos thatís all.

    Cheers Matt,

  10. #114
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    I noticed the following on Isaac Smiths blog;

    New Australian retailer: The Wood Works Book & Tool Co.

    Posted on June 6, 2018 by Isaac
    While I ship to dozens of countries, postage costs can often approach or exceed the purchase cost on many of my items. Australian customers now have another option for buying my saw parts Ė The Wood Works Book & Tool Co. in Sydney. For now, they carry a few sizes of spines, blades, and bolts, as well as spanners and carbide drill bits. If there is anything else youíd like to see them carry in the future, please let them know.

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Paul,
    I have abousulty nothing to say,seriously.
    Because between your self, and Ian your covering all the bases and providing a fantastic thread story to follow.
    So please just continue on,and don’t get hung up WIP there just for people who like to see letters high lite for there egos that’s all.

    Cheers Matt,
    Matt

    We are probably telling it warts and all. I am doing the "warts" bit and Ian is doing the "all."



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by planemaker View Post
    I noticed the following on Isaac Smiths blog;

    New Australian retailer: The Wood Works Book & Tool Co.
    Thanks for the heads-up Stewie, I wasn't aware the Toolworks were stocking saw-making gear. Now I know where to direct folks who ask me where to get the raw materials. It cost me about $10-13 for raw plate, a file (anything from $10-15 depending on size & quality) and a minimum of 1/2 hr of time to cut out & prepare a blade, so I think the prices they're asking for the plates are reasonable.

    Cheers,
    IW

  13. #117
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    Stewie

    I have just put in an order for the spade bit (I realised subsequently that I will be able to open it out with the reamers) from the Aussie stockist. These are the reamers I use:

    P1040313 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #118
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    Despite a few days off from work I seem to have been waylaid by other jobs and problems and have not accomplished anywhere near what I had hoped.

    To illustrate this, let me recount a tale of woe. I have two specialised screwdrivers for use with split nuts; A large one (for the larger screws) and a narrower one (for the smaller screws ). I was using the narrower version on the smaller split nuts about three days ago: That was the last time I saw it . I have looked and looked to no avail. Today I bit the bullet and made up another. "Fudge it," I thought to myself and said out loud in my most menacing tone.

    P1040331 (Medium).JPG

    Then I started to assemble the plate so I could measure up for the back where it slots into the handle.

    In fiddling with the hardware one of the split nuts fell off and disappeared down a dog hole. I spent the next hour taking the bench apart, removing all the debris on the work top and two shelves and searching everywhere including on the dirt floor. I finally found it on the dirt floor right in front of my feet. "Ok," I says to myself: "Enough is enough." Some while back Simplicity posted pix of a parts tray he made up when he was refurbishing a mitre box. I thought it was a wonderful idea at the time and said so. But I did not get around to making up such a good idea despite having complimented him on the concept.

    So I hastily cobbled up a tray to contain everything including small brass bits. I put the saw plate, the handle and the saw nuts in the tray. Hold on a tick. One of the nuts is missing!

    "Holy Moses, not again!" I says to meself. (Several expletives omitted so as not to offend you blokes with your sensitive ears.) Well I looked and I looked and I looked. Nada! How embarrassing. I was going to have to phone up IanW and ask him if he could resume the saw making business. So awful was this to contemplate, I actually asked SWMBO to come and help me look. Now to gauge the enormity of this request I have to tell you I avoid this if at all possible. There are some things we do passably well together, but "working" is not one of them. We both try to take charge.

    To cut a long story short, we both looked for some time and then I cleared the bench and there was the offending nut right in front of me!! She actually said "That wasn't there!" I think the implication was that I had put it there. Well, I suppose I had, but not knowingly as she was inferring. Anyway I diffused a potentially charged situation by asking if she would like anything to drink: A pint of gin, a hogshead of beer, three Harvey Wallbangers: In the end I got off lightly with only two glasses of wine. I fortunately remembered where the pint glasses were kept.

    So I did do a little bit on the littlest of the saws, but still not finished by a long stretch. The back needs to be closed up to grip the plate, more sanding needed on the handle before the finishing process and of course, it needs some teeth. I may have to recess the screw heads a little more. One thing my modified spade bit could not do was take the hole down further. The hole had been drilled out so there was no guide. I ended up using an undersized Forstner bit in the drill press and moving it around a little.

    And no, the nuts have not been fixed to the saw yet as I assembled it just for pix.


    P1040329 (Medium).JPGP1040330 (Medium).JPGP1040332 (Medium).JPG

    One thing I found very helpful was not having the back closed up. This allowed me to easily slot the back onto the plate to gauge where I needed to mortice the handle.

    My hands have ended up black from the tanins in the timber and I found I was constantly "dirtying" the handle. I may have to do the final sanding with some thin gloves on. Those white ones the butler uses .

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #119
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    Paul,
    You spin a fantastic yarn.
    But Iím going to give you a hint and being the inventor with patent pending.
    The parts board is for PARTS parts only!
    If you use it with parts, and tools, it just becomes another layer on the bench[emoji849].

    Cheers Matt,

  16. #120
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    Matt

    Thanks for the advice.

    Unfortunately I didn't have enough parts so I left some tools there.....for effect and to make it look like I was doing something. I hadn't realised that parts and tools were mutually exclusive.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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