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  1. #1
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    Default A Crazy Saw Service

    I had not intended to post this thread until much nearer completion, but my hand has been forced somewhat. I had favoured a fait accompli rather than the embryonic affair.

    However, some of you may recall that I recently espoused the virtues (aesthetically at least) of the famed Kenyon saws found in the Benjamin Seaton toolchest. It so happened in that acquiring the book I also now had available the dimensions and specifications of the six saws. I decided that I would like to produce a set of these saws for my own use: Not exact replicas, as will become evident, but sufficiently similar that there can be no doubt as to their origins.

    Why do I want to do this? Firstly because I can, or at least think I can, secondly because I find them kind of quirky, thirdly because I have a huge admiration that with their limited equipment and technology they could produce tools like this and lastly because I had much of the materials at my disposal. What I did not have was the brass spines for the four back saws.

    Having had a disastrous attempt at folding brass backs a while ago and exhausting my supplies, I contacted Ian Wilkie to find a brass supplier. Of course he quizzed me as to why I should need this material. To cut a long story short he offered to obtain the material and slit it for me to suit the blades I was going to use. We came to a contra deal arrangement. We came to another arrangement regarding the saw screws and he made these too in sizes to replicate the original Kenyon saws.

    I recently picked up the materials and have started the process. There are two plates that are brand new ( Ian got these also ), but the others would best be described as re-purposed. Now to the title of the thread and an explanation of "Crazy," which is not a dubious reference to my character despite what some may think. Some of you may be familiar with "crazy tea services", but for those of you who are not familiar with the term, it refers to a collection of cups and saucers that do not match. However they are normally from the same manufacturer and probably in the same style. This is what I propose to do in that the timber for the handles is all different. Part of the reason for this is that I did not have a single timber (with one exception) sufficient to cut all the handles. There has already been one reject which I posted elsewhere. The Hairy Oak let me down and was a big disappointment.So each is different as follows:

    The two open handle small saws with the offending Hairy oak handle now residing in the firewood pile:

    P1040121 (Medium).JPG

    Two closed handle back saws:

    P1040123 (Medium).JPG

    and two hand saws (yeah, I know there are three handles. I will explain later)

    P1040125 (Medium).JPG

    I deliberately have not named the timbers as I thought you might have some fun guessing: Forensic experts are allowed to compete.

    The rip saw is to be made out of my current rip saw, which is a Warranted Superior model of unknown origin other than it is probably pre WW1 with the nib

    P1040127 (Medium).JPGP1040129 (Medium).JPG

    The crosscut handsaw is from a Disston no.12 (1896 - 1917) with a mangled handle and no etch

    P1040130 (Medium).JPGP1040131 (Medium).JPG

    and the "third man" is a ring in again from a Disston No.12 (again 1896 - 1917), but is a very short, but quite fat, panel saw at only 18"." It will be cut down significantly from the original length of 26".

    P1040132 (Medium).JPGP1040133 (Medium).JPG

    If you think this is a a travesty, have a look at the following pic:

    P1040135 (Medium).JPG

    Two bad and terminal cracks in the plate which only left 18" of sound blade remaining. As it happened, I wanted this size saw to make a crosscut (9ppi) to compliment the 8ppi rip saw I produced in the Kenyon style a while back. I will be treating it a little differently to the six originals.

    P1040146 (Medium).JPG

    The plates of course now have to be cut to size, cleaned and sharpened.

    More to follow.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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  3. #2
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    Default

    There were four back saws in the Seaton/Kenyon range. They are a little different in shape compared to the saws we are used to.

    The first is the large tenon saw at 19 1/16". I am cutting this from an old mitre saw. Three inches under the back:

    P1040136 (Medium).JPGP1040137 (Medium).JPG

    The smaller closed handle saw is 14 1/16" and is coming from a panel saw (don't know what is was originally as it has no identification and was a bare blade). 2.75" under the back

    P1040141 (Medium).JPG

    The backs are massive on these two saws at 1" deep and 8mm thick. I may have to put a helper handle on the end!

    P1040142 (Medium).JPG

    The two small open handle saws will have brand new plates as I had nothing thin enough to replicate the original saws. The backs are still heavy for their size. Just a tad over two inches under the back for the larger and 1.5" under the back for the dovetail saw. Actually the original had even less than this at 1.38", but if I ever get the dovetail bug I don't want to run out of saw plate by the end of the week.

    P1040143 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #3
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    Default

    Paul,
    This is going to be an epic adventure of massive proportions.
    I will be gladly pulling up a very comfortable seat.
    Iíve had my people cancel all my immediate commitments for the next six months.
    So I can stay tuned to all viewing screen devices.
    I will not in any shape or form be attempting to run this thread of course.
    I have also had extra organic orange juice brought in with the extra preservatives you privately in PM reckon mend I prescribe to every night from this moment forth.

    Cheers Matt

  5. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Paul,
    This is going to be an epic adventure of massive proportions.
    I will be gladly pulling up a very comfortable seat.
    I’ve had my people cancel all my immediate commitments for the next six months.
    So I can stay tuned to all viewing screen devices.
    I will not in any shape or form be attempting to run this thread of course.
    I have also had extra organic orange juice brought in with the extra preservatives you privately in PM reckon mend I prescribe to every night from this moment forth.

    Cheers Matt

    Thanks Matt

    I hope you won't be disappointed as I do find it very easy to fall off the pedestal. Now you have the OJ recipe with secret ingredients you will be able to scale tall buildings in a single bound and fold the brass backs of saws with your finger and thumb. SHMBO will be so impressed. Umm., that's your SWMBO, not my SWMBO. Mine is more like Sybil out of Faulty Towers: "Yes dear. Don't forget to close the door on your shed."



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  6. #5
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    Default

    On the subject of the timber for the handles, they are all Australian and not introduced species. So, for example, Jacaranda, which is often regarded as Australian being ubiquitous, would not count as it comes from Brazil, I think: South America anyway.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Thanks Matt

    I hope you won't be disappointed as I do find it very easy to fall off the pedestal. Now you have the OJ recipe with secret ingredients you will be able to scale tall buildings in a single bound and fold the brass backs of saws with your finger and thumb. SHMBO will be so impressed. Umm., that's your SWMBO, not my SWMBO. Mine is more like Sybil out of Faulty Towers: "Yes dear. Don't forget to close the door on your shed."



    Regards
    Paul
    There are I think a few Sybilís about.
    Did you close the container door, did you turn of the lights, extra extra extra.[emoji849]

  8. #7
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    Default

    I too have pulled up a comfy chair to watch this one Paul. Once I have my workbench done I want to make a few backsaws myself.

    I guess I am lucky I don't have a Sibil or a SWMBO, I have a Jools who comes out to clean the shed floor A keeper?

    Life is good. I chose well this time around.
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.

  9. #8
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    Default

    I did make a little progress last night but had a slight moment with the smaller of the closed handle backsaws as the size I had marked out didn't look right, but as I had left my notebook in the house I decided to call it quits, plus it was starting to cool a fair bit and the sook in me said it would be much warmer in front of the fire.

    I cut the plates with a thin cutting disc in an angle grinder. I also sat the plates on a slab of metal that was rescued from the waste skip. This was just to provide a heat sink but was unnecessary really other than I had to have something solid to clamp the metal.

    P1040158 (Medium).JPG

    As it happened, in conjunction with a piece of mild steel as a guide it was easy to trim the plates up. This was the larger open handled saw.

    P1040147 (Medium).JPGP1040148 (Medium).JPGP1040149.jpg


    When I measured up the plate this morning I realised I had not allowed sufficient metal for the back and there was insufficient dept in the panel saw I had selected.

    P1040150 (Medium).JPG

    I tried several plates but all were too small to get the required depth. Then I found a Disston No.12 which was almost the right size and could be sacrificied because it was well worn, for a hand saw.

    P1040154 (Medium).JPGP1040153 (Medium).JPG

    It just leaves a small chamfered piece at the toe, which will be hidden by the back. I can live with that.

    P1040155 (Medium).JPG

    The basic shapes are formed and in the case of the handsaws the nibs and curve at the toe still have to be refined. The three smaller back saws and the short, chunky hand saw will all require new teeth and the plates have to be polished on all saws with the possible exception of the rip saw, which had the treatment many moons ago.

    P1040156 (Medium).JPGP1040157 (Medium).JPG

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #9
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    Default

    Excellent,

    We have progress, I thought for a minute ,I was going to have to get fresh OJ.

    So after slight set back the plate preparation is under way.
    I must amid Paul ,I donít envy you cutting the plates I hate cutting metal with angle grinders
    There violently disgusting little creatures similar to politicians living a life of all sparks and noise.
    With no real substance only designed to destroy.

    I have used belief or not tin snips on the the thinner plate.(30 gauge I [emoji848])
    That I got from Dale years ago and it worked very well.

    What and how will you be polishing the plates and to what degree.?
    Will I need to be viewing this thread through my welding googles from that point onwards.
    Or will my special OJ + ones be enough?

    Cheers Matt

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Excellent,


    There violently disgusting little creatures similar to politicians living a life of all sparks and noise.
    With no real substance only designed to destroy.


    Will I need to be viewing this thread through my welding googles from that point onwards.
    Or will my special OJ + ones be enough?

    Cheers Matt
    Ah Matt,

    Politicians!!

    "Full of sound and fury
    Signifying nothing."
    (allegedly, a tale told by an idiot. If you can believe Mr. S )

    I understand your misgivings with angle grinders, but I was only using a 5" machine. It fell through the plate so quickly I could hold the metal with bare fingers immediately after the cut. Now if I was using the 9" or the 7" for that matter, which in my machine is heavier than the 9", I would not be quite so nonchalant.

    Moving away from metal for a moment, I cut out three handles this evening (Ian would have done all seven in the same time), just to the roughing stage.

    As there have been no takers on the timber identification, I will start to name them. I don't blame anybody for not having a go. I have to think twice and I know what I've got! The first was a real battle, which I was anticipating. I cut out a rough blank first before final trimming followed by shaping (the curvy bits. I am very attracted to such things.)

    I now know that my jigsaw really hates Gidgee and I also know why I have never seen a handle made from it before;

    P1040168 (Medium).JPG

    The Spotted Gum was a breeze in comparison, but still problematical compared to more commonly used timbers.

    P1040167 (Medium).JPG

    While the Silky Oak was the proverbial walk in the park.

    P1040166 (Medium).JPG

    In this instance and because I am starting from scratch the screws holding the template to the blank are exactly where the saw screws will be. Normally when making a replacement handle for a saw I have to put a couple of extra "tabs" for holding screws on the template as hardware holes have to be matched up after the blank is cut.

    While I was cutting the Gidgee, the blade, which admittedly was not new, started to protest and it self-destructed. I grabbed a new blade but picked up a different level of coarseness (more) which did not really matter as this is after all the "roughing out" stage.

    I took the liberty or making the pix larger as the "medium" size just does not cut it.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #11
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    Gidgee
    Iíve just become even more interested Paul.
    Even more interested than I was before and I was very interested before you even mentioned Gidgee.
    So now Iím contemplating pharmaceutical substance abuse of some sort, so I can take my sleeping time from a lazy 8/9 hours down too say 2 hours a day so I donít miss anything.
    Very interested.

    You seem to be pulling out all the stops now,Gidgee is one of my favourite timbers
    Also is there a little one being done in Hairy Oak.

    Cheers Matt.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Also is there a little one being done in Hairy Oak.

    Cheers Matt.

    Alas, that was the first timber that I tried and it didn't play the game.

    P1040110 (Medium).JPGP1040109 (Medium).JPG

    The hair concealed the slit which I didn't notice until I started cutting.



    I clearly did not pay close enough attention.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #13
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    Bugger!
    Pat
    Work is a necessary evil to be avoided. Mark Twain

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    I now know that my jigsaw really hates Gidgee and I also know why I have never seen a handle made from it before
    Now that you mention it, I have never seen a sawhandle made of gidgee either.

    For that matter I have only ever seen one pair of wooden hinges made out of gidgee.

    In fact there may well only be one pair of gidgee hinges in existence because after making the first pair I for one will never make another.
    Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.

  16. #15
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    Doug

    To cut the handle hole out, I first drilled a hole with a 12mm brad point bit in the drill press. It went through the Silky Oak in one hit. The Spotted Gum took about four hits and some smoke and the Gidgee more again including much smoking and one compete jam.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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