Thread: Isaac On Sawfiles

Nice work Isaac.

regards Stewie.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but from reading your 'treatise', it looks like our experiences have been very similar, Isaac. If the Grobert files ever go 'off', I don't know what we'll do for finer toothed saws!

I used up the last of any suitable NOS files I could get my hands on quite a while back, so have been making do with new Pferds for larger teeth. They are ok, but only just. The teeth are too brittle and fail pretty quick when cutting in, as you have observed...

Cheers,

Presume you guys don't have anyone importing bahco files by the box?

we have an auto supply place here "auto tool world" that has been selling bahco files for a while, and cheap, but what you don't find out from their site is that you have to buy in boxes of 10. Most of the file sizes you'd use from them are between $4 and $6 a file. For as good as the files are, that's CHEAP. They just get drop shipped directly from williams tool (snap on), thus no ability to get anything other than boxes of ten.

Grobet files that I've gotten lately have been garbage, uneven edges, bowed, misshapen, miscut teeth, etc. They are all I have for the small xx slim files, though. Those were the ones sold here labeled "grobet USA". I do have some swiss, but it's getting with grobet that something you got two years ago that's good may not be so the next time around (I'm sure isaac will provide a buffer from any junk, though - something the box sellers on amazon and ebay don't do. They ship whatever they have)

I'm glad to see isaac selling individual files for people who will need individual files.

Hi DW. I use Vallorbe 3 Square Needle Files. They have a longer lasting edge retention. They come in 2 lengths. 160mm & 180mm. The longer length have a slightly wider flat increasing that increases their compatibilty to include 10 ppi. They also come in 4 different coarseness of cut. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. The higher the number, the finer the cut. My personal preference is #Cut 3. I can for example shape & sharpen new teeth on a 12" backsaw using only 1 edge of the file. For the D8 20" Panel Saw (10 ppi) I am currently refurbishing, will require the need to use 2 edges of the file. If I had chosen a #Cut 2 file, 1 edge would have been sufficient, but it does leave a slightly harsher surface appearance.

http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/need...mm-p-1149.html

regards Stewie;

Originally Posted by IanW

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but from reading your 'treatise', it looks like our experiences have been very similar, Isaac. If the Grobert files ever go 'off', I don't know what we'll do for finer toothed saws!

I used up the last of any suitable NOS files I could get my hands on quite a while back, so have been making do with new Pferds for larger teeth. They are ok, but only just. The teeth are too brittle and fail pretty quick when cutting in, as you have observed...

Cheers,

It seems like everyone filing more than a few saws has reached the same conclusions. Pferd and Bahco are in the same tier, but I slightly prefer Bahco.

I sincerely hope Grobet holds the line on their needle files. Maybe the combined demand from saw sharpeners and jewelers and whoever else uses them counts for something.

Originally Posted by D.W.

Grobet files that I've gotten lately have been garbage, uneven edges, bowed, misshapen, miscut teeth, etc. They are all I have for the small xx slim files, though. Those were the ones sold here labeled "grobet USA". I do have some swiss, but it's getting with grobet that something you got two years ago that's good may not be so the next time around (I'm sure isaac will provide a buffer from any junk, though - something the box sellers on amazon and ebay don't do. They ship whatever they have)

I presume the Grobet files you write of are the ones sold as saw files. I don't sell any of those files, as I have not had good luck in the past with them. I bought many dozen a few years ago, and was very excited to get them. I quickly soured on them, though, because of their poor quality. I still have a few boxes left that I occasionally use for reshaping teeth. They really aren't useful for anything else that I do.

The only Grobet files I sell are the needle files, and I haven't seen any decline in the quality of those files. I use those instead of the 4" XX files now, partly because I don't know of anyone making a good saw file in that size. I also have come to really like the sharper corners of the needle files for teeth that are about 11 or 12 ppi and finer.

Originally Posted by Isaac S

It seems like everyone filing more than a few saws has reached the same conclusions. Pferd and Bahco are in the same tier, but I slightly prefer Bahco......

Isaac, much as I like the Grobet needle files for smaller teeth, I have to say I find them less comfortable to use, and they become decidedly uncomfortable on a long row of teeth, or if sharpening several saws in succession, because of those sharp points and short stroke. So I would prefer to find a reliable 5" DEST or equivalent, for the mid-range sizes of teeth (~10-12 tpi), if I could. I just checked their catalogues, & Bahco seem to have a better range than Pferd, down our way. They say they have 4", 5", & 6" DEST. The best I could get from Pferd (about 6 months ago) was supposed to be the equivalent of 5" ES, but the corners weren't what I'm used to in ES! Worse, they varied (on the same file!), which makes life interesting for saw sharpeners. I'm about to run out of small files, so I'll get a pack of Bahcos and give them a trial.

Originally Posted by Isaac S

.....The only Grobet files I sell are the needle files, and I haven't seen any decline in the quality of those files..

My fingers are firmly crossed......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Isaac, much as I like the Grobet needle files for smaller teeth, I have to say I find them less comfortable to use, and they become decidedly uncomfortable on a long row of teeth, or if sharpening several saws in succession, because of those sharp points and short stroke. So I would prefer to find a reliable 5" DEST or equivalent, for the mid-range sizes of teeth (~10-12 tpi), if I could. I just checked their catalogues, & Bahco seem to have a better range than Pferd, down our way. They say they have 4", 5", & 6" DEST. The best I could get from Pferd (about 6 months ago) was supposed to be the equivalent of 5" ES, but the corners weren't what I'm used to in ES! Worse, they varied (on the same file!), which makes life interesting for saw sharpeners. I'm about to run out of small files, so I'll get a pack of Bahcos and give them a trial.



My fingers are firmly crossed......

Cheers,

I alleviate that cramping by inserting the small tang of such files into a larger handle alongside one or two pieces of 0.035" MIG wire and twist until it tightens.

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi DW. I use Vallorbe 3 Square Needle Files. They have a longer lasting edge retention. They come in 2 lengths. 160mm & 180mm. The longer length have a slightly wider flat increasing that increases their compatibilty to include 10 ppi. They also come in 4 different coarseness of cut. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. The higher the number, the finer the cut. My personal preference is #Cut 3. I can for example shape & sharpen new teeth on a 12" backsaw using only 1 edge of the file. For the D8 20" Panel Saw (10 ppi) I am currently refurbishing, will require the need to use 2 edges of the file. If I had chosen a #Cut 2 file, 1 edge would have been sufficient, but it does leave a slightly harsher surface appearance.

http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/need...mm-p-1149.html

regards Stewie;

The Grobet needle files I use are 200mm long. I use the No. 2 cut. I have tried the No. 4, but they are just too fine for my taste and don't last quite as long. I don't think I have seen them sold in a No. 3 cut, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Originally Posted by IanW

Isaac, much as I like the Grobet needle files for smaller teeth, I have to say I find them less comfortable to use, and they become decidedly uncomfortable on a long row of teeth, or if sharpening several saws in succession, because of those sharp points and short stroke. So I would prefer to find a reliable 5" DEST or equivalent, for the mid-range sizes of teeth (~10-12 tpi), if I could. I just checked their catalogues, & Bahco seem to have a better range than Pferd, down our way. They say they have 4", 5", & 6" DEST. The best I could get from Pferd (about 6 months ago) was supposed to be the equivalent of 5" ES, but the corners weren't what I'm used to in ES! Worse, they varied (on the same file!), which makes life interesting for saw sharpeners. I'm about to run out of small files, so I'll get a pack of Bahcos and give them a trial.

10 ppi is an awkward size for me to file with today's files. I do wish I could get a 4" or 5" DEST from Bahco for them.

That's interesting that you can get the 4" DEST from Bahco. Here, I can't find them. LEt me know if you can actually get them. The only DEST saw file I can find from Bahco is the 6" version. I have seen Pferd sold in 5" and 8" versions, but I haven't used those sizes.

Regarding the sharp point, just break it off. Does take you in the wrong direction for solving the length problem, though. What length are you using? I use the 200mm files, and if you break off about 3/8" from the end, it is almost identical in length and cross section to a 4" DEST file. I'm only half joking about breaking them, but have done it more than once myself (unintentionally). I use a filing guide, though, so sharp points don't bother me.

Originally Posted by IanW

My fingers are firmly crossed......

I should probably keep my mouth shut so they don't get any ideas about taking them away from us.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I alleviate that cramping by inserting the small tang of such files into a larger handle alongside one or two pieces of 0.035" MIG wire and twist until it tightens.

I love the tangs on my needle files. They work great in the cast iron handles, but one of these days I'm going to make myself a deluxe handle out of some exotic wood and bronze specifically for those files. Just need to catch up a bit more on work first...

Originally Posted by IanW

...so I'll get a pack of Bahcos and give them a trial.

...and damned good luck sourcing them......

If you find a retailer who stocks them then you'd better make some noise. The only retailer I've been able to find stocks a poofteenth of their range, and is in Perth.

Originally Posted by Isaac S

I sincerely hope Grobet holds the line on their needle files. Maybe the combined demand from saw sharpeners and jewelers and whoever else uses them counts for something.

Apologies if I'm repeating myself, or what others have already mentioned, but....

If it's a Grobet or F.Dick or Vallorbe or Glardon needle file then it is made by Glardon in Switzerland, with whatever badge is required for that day. There are more than likely other brands that can be included here. In short, if it's a good quality needle file, with a round tang that has two knurlings on it, then it comes from Glardon.



If it is any other kind of saw file then it is either:
1. made in Portugal by Tome Feteira and branded as Bahco
2. made in France by Liogier
3. Made in India China, Mexico, Honduras or Brazil. Possibly the Philipines. (and that includes all Pferd files - Indian).

There are exactly three European Saw File factories.

If it has a black printed logo etc - highly likely to be of Indian descent (especially if the printing is lousy). Note that's "descent" not "decent".

If the country is printed on it without the words "Made In" then it wasn't. Simply marketed from that country (if that).

In short... be suspicious

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Apologies if I'm repeating myself, or what others have already mentioned, but....

If it's a Grobet or F.Dick or Vallorbe or Glardon needle file then it is made by Glardon in Switzerland, with whatever badge is required for that day. There are more than likely other brands that can be included here. In short, if it's a good quality needle file, with a round tang that has two knurlings on it, then it comes from Glardon.



If it is any other kind of saw file then it is either:
1. made in Portugal by Tome Feteira and branded as Bahco
2. made in France by Liogier
3. Made in India China, Mexico, Honduras or Brazil. Possibly the Philipines. (and that includes all Pferd files - Indian).

There are exactly three European Saw File factories.

If it has a black printed logo etc - highly likely to be of Indian descent (especially if the printing is lousy). Note that's "descent" not "decent".

If the country is printed on it without the words "Made In" then it wasn't. Simply marketed from that country (if that).

In short... be suspicious

Didn't it take 50 pages to reach this conclusion last year?

Seriously, though, thank you for the concise summary.

Originally Posted by Isaac S

The Grobet needle files I use are 200mm long. I use the No. 2 cut. I have tried the No. 4, but they are just too fine for my taste and don't last quite as long. I don't think I have seen them sold in a No. 3 cut, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Hi Isaac. I highly recommend you trial the swiss Vallorbe 3 square needle files. Get the longer ones at 180mm #cut 3. I would not be surprised if you find the edge retention far superior than the Grobets your currently using.

http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/need...mm-p-1149.html

If you need someone in Aust. to order you some, you can contact me via pm. There's generally a modest cost saving on the unit price if you order by the box. (12 files).

regards Stewie;