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  1. #46
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    Beautiful work Ian.

    Always I'm so impressed.

    May I ask how you cut the slots in the brass?

    Also, the rest of you blokes are incredible. How many other places would I not only read about ancient Egyptian saw making, but the bloody difficulty of sharpening them!

    I feel like emailing Zahi Hawass and asking him!

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    .... May I ask how you cut the slots in the brass?.....
    With my Heath-Robinson milling machine, WP. It consists of a drill-press, an inexpensive arbor & slitting sawfrom McJing's, some bits of scrap hardwood and a few bolts & wing nuts. Rearrange them a bit & presto..... Slitting jig 1.jpg

    The moveable block acts as the fence & can be set to expose a teeny bit of blade, then moved back for successive cuts: Slitting jig 2.jpg

    With the brass bar being fed past the saw by hand, the cuts can only be very light, about 1.5mm per pass at the most, but it doesn't take long to slot half a dozen backs. The most taxing job is setting the saw at the right height - that can take me 10-15 minutes of fiddling!

    And this jig is another thing that's way too big for model-sized stuff - the brass needs to be about twice as long as the gap in the guard/fence for safe passes. I can see why modellers all seem to own small milling machines......

    Cheers,

    Edit: If it makes you feel better, I had to google to find who Zawi Hawass is. But now I know, it might be a good idea to ask him - you never know, he might be a closet woodworker & have a deep interest in both ancient & modern saws!
    IW

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    With my Heath-Robinson milling machine, WP. It consists of a drill-press, an inexpensive arbor & slitting sawfrom McJing's, some bits of scrap hardwood and a few bolts & wing nuts. Rearrange them a bit & presto..... Slitting jig 1.jpg

    The moveable block acts as the fence & can be set to expose a teeny bit of blade, then moved back for successive cuts: Slitting jig 2.jpg

    With the brass bar being fed past the saw by hand, the cuts can only be very light, about 1.5mm per pass at the most, but it doesn't take long to slot half a dozen backs. The most taxing job is setting the saw at the right height - that can take me 10-15 minutes of fiddling!

    And this jig is another thing that's way too big for model-sized stuff - the brass needs to be about twice as long as the gap in the guard/fence for safe passes. I can see why modellers all seem to own small milling machines......

    Cheers,

    Edit: If it makes you feel better, I had to google to find who Zawi Hawass is. But now I know, it might be a good idea to ask him - you never know, he might be a closet woodworker & have a deep interest in both ancient & modern saws!
    Funny this has popped up Ian,
    I have been meaning to ask you, to show me your slotting set up.
    It’s something I want to have a go at again, tried in the past and failed[emoji3064].

    But yours might inspire me to have a go again.

    Till I get a real milling machine (Its high on the want list)
    I’ve also noticed you have mentioned a milling machine quite a few times in the last few days[emoji6].

    Cheers Matt.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    ........I’ve also noticed you have mentioned a milling machine quite a few times in the last few days.......
    Matt, I think about milling machines at least once a week, probably much more often, & frequently look at various models on line. BUT, it's a direction I hesitate to go in. I already spend far more time thinking about & making tools than common sense can justify. It's not just the cost of a decent machine, as you well know, but you have to make a heavy investment in a slew of bits, collets, work-holding vises etc. before it can actually do anything useful. You can easily spend as much as a small machine costs before making your first project with it. Then there's the time it will take me to learn how to use the thing competently, not to mention all the lovely but completely unnecessary rabbit holes it will take me down.....

    So I hesitate & hesitate....

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #50
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    The simplicity of this slitter is unreal. Perfection. Why spend gigabux when something like this works so well.

    One can see how well it works --> your work!


    I will admit @Simplicity, that last night I did look up one of those tiny metal lathes... the kind that can be put into a box and lugged out/away as needed. I thought they were quite cute! .... but... for a few bolts its cheaper to buy them ....

    I cannot believe how fast you put these saws together Ian. I've saved the imaged in my reference folder. I find it unreal that you simply banged out a range of highly useful and highly interesting things in such short order. Its so impressive.


    On Mr Hawass, he is a nutter and absolutely one of those guys that is not engaged lightly, his enthusiasm is 37 out of 10.... but I'm going to ask anyway.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    ......I will admit @Simplicity, that last night I did look up one of those tiny metal lathes... the kind that can be put into a box and lugged out/away as needed. I thought they were quite cute! .... but... for a few bolts its cheaper to buy them ....
    But not as much fun! A small lathe with thread-cutting ability can be pretty cheap. This is very similar to my lathe though I paid nearly twice as much for mine at H&F (& that was more than 10 years ago - the current model has a couple of features mine lacks, like speed read-out & a cam-clamping tail stock, and a bigger bore in the headstock spindle (21mm vs 16 on mine) - and the price has gone up 50% since then, of course. Mine does what I need, but I would love the bigger-bore spindle.

    You still need a few accessories for a lathe to get the full potential out of it, so as with a mill, you're not done after forking out for the basic machine. A 4-jaw chuck is very handy, some quick-change tool holders are almost essential on these little monkies if you want to finish a job before you lose interest. And a set of decent cutting tools is absolutely essential, the ones that come with my lathe were barely better than useless. Oh & a knurling tool would be considered essential for anyone with tool-making ambitions. So you wouldn't walk away with any change out of 2 grand. Thread-cutting on these babies is a bit tedious, you have to guddle about with greasy cogs to select your pitch, and the range is limited, so it's better to do most of your thread-cutting with dies (your first project can be to turn up a die-holder so you can thread jobs while mounted on the lathe), but a set of decent taps & dies eats up a very generous amount of pocket-money. And on it goes..

    It's like any hobby - you have to decide what are your priorities and what you can justify to achieve whatever it is you want to do. You can do a lot with a little when it's a hobby & time isn't money - but you take a different view if you are doing it for a living.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    ...I cannot believe how fast you put these saws together Ian. I've saved the imaged in my reference folder. I find it unreal that you simply banged out a range of highly useful and highly interesting things in such short order. Its so impressive
    Hmm, I'm not that fast, WP - remember most days are mine to spend as I please, these days . I have certainly become a bit faster at making saws after something north of 100 over the last 11 years or so, but it still takes me a long day to make a closed-handle tenon saw, for e.g. The metalwork is done well before morning coffee, it's the darned handles that take forever - depending on the wood I choose, that can take the rest of the day & a slice of the next, at times! A dovetailed plane takes at least 3 days, if I can get a clear go at it for that long at a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    ....On Mr Hawass, he is a nutter and absolutely one of those guys that is not engaged lightly, his enthusiasm is 37 out of 10.... but I'm going to ask anyway.
    Good luck - what I read about the bloke on a couple of sites was less than flattering, so not sure you should put too much store by his answer (if you get one)...

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #52
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    A small digression

    I was in the Bunnies store this afternoon, as I was in the need of a brand new crappy handsaw for my day job(no I don’t have an evening job lol)

    The last crappy Handsaw did not like rusty imbedded nails a little precious if you ask me,but anyway.

    I found this

    First thing it “claims” to be made in Sweden which suits my personal political stance at present.

    But what caught my eye was the size

    It’s 500 mm long 70 mm at the toe with a plate thickness of 0.87 mm.
    Small panel Saw !!
    Backsaw !!

    Cheers Matt.

  9. #53
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    Matt

    I can see some repurposing on the horizon after you saw through the first four inch nail.



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Matt

    I can see some repurposing on the horizon after you saw through the first four inch nail.



    Regards
    Paul
    Paul,
    You must give up this mind reading stuff, it’s scaring me.

    Cheers Matt.

  11. #55
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    Matt, 0.87mm is roughly 34 thou which is rather hefty for a backsaw. Be a god starting point to taper-grind a panel saw blade from though. Pity no-one here has taken up taper-grinding. Paul, I'm looking to you to start something, you have a genius for coming up with some nifty low-tech ways for getting the job done....

    Cheers,
    IW

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Matt, 0.87mm is roughly 34 thou which is rather hefty for a backsaw. Be a god starting point to taper-grind a panel saw blade from though. Pity no-one here has taken up taper-grinding. Paul, I'm looking to you to start something, you have a genius for coming up with some nifty low-tech ways for getting the job done....

    Cheers,
    I was patiently waiting for my modern metric talk to be translated too post imperial talk Ian.[emoji6]

    Agreed it is on the thick side,
    Blackburn tools biggest saw back slot is 0.3 inch or 7.62 mm wide.

    When I saw the saw that saw I must take I saw, I was thinking a small panel saw maybe.

    It was the size of the plate that caught my attention.
    Once it’s retired from official hacking business, when ever that will be, I may re use it.

    Cheers Matt.

  13. #57
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    O yes, re-use it by all means, I'm always in favour of reducing waste! I was just suggesting it is a bit fat for a back saw,unless it's a big one. Fat plate & small teeth just don't go together happily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    I was patiently waiting for my modern metric talk to be translated too post imperial talk Ian.....
    Yeah, well, no apologies, I'm an old dinosaur raised in the Imperial age. I'm reasonably bilingual with most measurements, but for some reason, while I can easily remember saw plate gauges in thousanths of an inch, the metric equivalents just won't stick to my brain, so I had to convert to get a mental picture of what 0.87mm means in that context. I can work back from 1mm = (roughly) 40 thou to get an approximation, but it's easier to just google up a conversion app.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    .... Blackburn tools biggest saw back slot is 0.3 inch or 7.62 mm wide......
    Now it's my turn.
    What on earth would you put in a 7.62mm slot?! I think you might've misplaced a decimal point......

    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #58
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    I measured a few backsaws to get some perspective on plate thickness. My vernier gauge is only a plastic cheapie ( I have another four gauges that have all given up the ghost ) and probably not precise, but it is at least a rough guide. This is what I came up with using Simonds backsaws only:

    8" .019"
    10" .022"
    12" .022"
    14" .027"
    16" .027"
    20" .027"
    22" .037"
    24" .038"
    26" .041"
    28" .041"

    The last four saws in the list were dedicated mitre saws.

    As to taper grinding, I think Rob Streeper dabbled in this area a little and I think he used an improvised linisher. I think I remember a post where he used a couple of large ride-on lawn mower wheels. At the turn of the last century I think the taper grinding was performed on large stone grinding wheels so maybe not that precise, although I suspect those involved developed a skill that was quite remarkable. A linisher or even a belt sander (100mm would be preferable) may be useful and that is the approach I would take. Having said that, I have never tried this and one issue would be to make sure the saw plate does not overheat: No more difficult thansharpening a chisel bevel using a bench grinder. Plenty of water.

    It could be a little project for when I clear the current backlog.

    Regards
    paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    O yes, re-use it by all means, I'm always in favour of reducing waste! I was just suggesting it is a bit fat for a back saw,unless it's a big one. Fat plate & small teeth just don't go together happily.



    Yeah, well, no apologies, I'm an old dinosaur raised in the Imperial age. I'm reasonably bilingual with most measurements, but for some reason, while I can easily remember saw plate gauges in thousanths of an inch, the metric equivalents just won't stick to my brain, so I had to convert to get a mental picture of what 0.87mm means in that context. I can work back from 1mm = (roughly) 40 thou to get an approximation, but it's easier to just google up a conversion app.



    Now it's my turn.
    What on earth would you put in a 7.62mm slot?! I think you might've misplaced a decimal point......

    Cheers,
    I’m really playing with fire hear,
    Hope I don’t get egg on my face.


    From Blackburn tools


    Cheers Matt.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post

    Now it's my turn.
    What on earth would you put in a 7.62mm slot?! I think you might've misplaced a decimal point......

    Cheers,
    7.62mm sounds like a round of ammunition to me.

    Did Matt mean the thickness of the back and not the thickness of the slit?

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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