Thread: Saw for sliding dovetails (pt 1)

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Until someone else recently mentioned using an angled guide, I knew no other way of doing it. It's how I begin the majority of saw cuts. How else do you saw half-blind dovetail sockets?

Why WW, I use this guide for my dovetail saw ...



No, really, I have no difficulty sawing to a line with dovetails, half-blind or blind, however it did not occur to me to treat a sliding dovetail in the same manner. Mmmmm ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

I couldn't remember where I had seen a fellow cutting a sliding tapered dovetail on the net when I first saw this post or perhaps a recent related post asking how.

It was an episode of the Woodwright's Shop. Here is the link to the video. It runs for 27 minutes.


Video: The Case for Books | Watch The Woodwrights Shop Online | UNC-TV Video

Another great St. Roy video.

Thanks Paul - I love the 'pared-back' way he works.

It didn't occur to me before, but I guess you could cut the dovetail half of the groove/dado straight and put the taper on the vertical side?
If there isn't a practical consideration I've missed, I would have thought that would be a bit easier to execute (?)

Cheers,
Paul

Paul, you over-think things, I'm afraid. There are so many operations that can be done very accurately by practised hands. Until recently, at least, there have been some things that could only be done sufficiently accurately by hand such as grinding those humongous reflector mirrors for celestial telescopes. "Practise" is the operative word.......

Cheers,

I believe you've hit the nail on the head Ian: Many amateurs failing to achieve the results they expect from techniques they've seen others master, resort to guides, jigs and similar incompetent aids with the result they gain no practice in the technique that they should be persevering with and therefore never gain any proficiency at it.

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, you over-think things, I'm afraid. There are so many operations that can be done very accurately by practised hands. Until recently, at least, there have been some things that could only be done sufficiently accurately by hand such as grinding those humongous reflector mirrors for celestial telescopes. "Practise" is the operative word.......

Cheers,

I absolutely agree with you and WW about the simplicity with which work can be performed - with practise. That video that Paul posted is a perfect example.

Seeing Roy and Frank Krausz work ... that captures my ideal of workmanship.
Those videos of the French cabinet-makers, and recently of the old Irish makers of boats and carriages ... I love that.
To see a, as you say, practiced hand quietly and efficiently working - without a plethora of new tools and jigs - is a delight to me.

But, your words were that there was no practical way of using a fence in that situation, and unnecessary or not, the idea of a semi-doughnut jig that could be rotated and reversed to fence all six cuts appealed to me as a concept. And who knows, the idea might park itself into someone's brain and be turned into something else actually useful in a completely different context. Well ... It's never happened with any other idea I've had, but you never know ...

And yes to the overthinking. But it keeps me off the streets, so it's approved by the local council.


Cheers,
Paul

(For you Ian ...) [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLLbDoRvkms&feature=plcp]Telescope Making video #4 of 4 by Rich M - YouTube[/ame]

After some more tinkering, have decided my new dovetail/stair/dado - whatever saw is a keeper, so I rearranged my "overflow" saw cupboaard to accomodate it.

I suppose I could squeeze another small saw or two in, at a pinch, but it might be hard to extract them iff I do - shades of Studley, here....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by homesy135

I couldn't remember where I had seen a fellow cutting a sliding tapered dovetail on the net when I first saw this post or perhaps a recent related post asking how.

It was an episode of the Woodwright's Shop. Here is the link to the video. It runs for 27 minutes.


Video: The Case for Books | Watch The Woodwrights Shop Online | UNC-TV Video

You guys do great work! As usual, Derek's article on sliding dovetails is excellent.

Thanks for the link to Roy's video. When I took a class from him last week at Lie-Nielsen (TobyC posted a link here to my blog post on it), the sliding dovetail was the last item on the agenda, but we ran out of time before we got to it. It's also in his books "The Woodwright's Guide" (for shelf) and "The Woodwright's Apprentice" (for 3-legged table and chair bottom cross-cleat).

Just thinking - after posting the thread about the strength of unglued dovetails - that the half-straight-sided (sliding) dovetail wouldn't have the (exact) same deformation behaviour. I suppose if it was given the opportunity it would like to rotate out of its socket/groove with the angled edge as the pivot area.

Does that in practice effect which way you would point the angled side (up or down) to a half-dovetailed shelf board that might be destined to be overloaded with heavy books?

I'm guessing that the angled edge upwards and shouldered on the bottom would be the preferred arrangement? or a full sliding dovetail?

Thanks,
Paul

Paul, in the grand scheme of things, I doubt it matters a hoot which way the angled side goes. Whatever the strength, of just about any dovetail, lapped, half-lapped or sliding, it's adequate for the purpose if used in the way that experience & time have shown works. Tests of strength under different conditions are illuminating, and interesting, but I'm not sure how they advance existing empirical knowledge......

Cheers,

Another design.

The Part-Time Woodworker: My New Rock And Roll Saw...

it would be an interesting saw to use, and to re-sharpen and maintain Paul, depending on which angle you hold the saw at the tooth angle (rake) will be different all along the blade (relative to the timber) unless you match it to the curve of the fence!(who would do that!) then you would want to be pretty accurate when jointing or resharpening the blade to keep the distance equal from the tip of the teeth to the bottom of the fence/stop...could be a real pig to push through some nice timber and keep a neat cut, make a mess of it is my first thought (fine for cutting through giprock though), maybe they have this worked out though...thats just my ,ultra, quick take on it without any thought i admit


ps, looks like fancy wood too, maybe zebra and black plastic or maybe zebra coloured plastic, whats it cost?

Originally Posted by IanW

After some more tinkering, have decided my new dovetail/stair/dado - whatever saw is a keeper, so I rearranged my "overflow" saw cupboaard to accomodate it.

I suppose I could squeeze another small saw or two in, at a pinch, but it might be hard to extract them iff I do - shades of Studley, here....

Cheers,

There's plenty of room in there for more saws. Just turn every second one upside down.

Cheers
Brett (PhD in AR)