Thread: Another tenon saw complete.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

Thanks Stewie.

Were the USA bits a cheaper option?? I couldn't find that type on ebay.




The style your heading in with your saws reminds me a lot of Ron Bontz work. If you haven't already seen his saws I think you will like them.

The larger size from the USA was cheaper. This is the link to the seller. eBay My World - thelifeinsd
Ron Bontz and I correspond with each other frequently via the USA woodnet forum. I also do similar with Isaac from Blackburn Tools, and Klaus & Pedder from Two Lawyers Toolworks

Stewie;

Today I was able to track down the quality issue with the saw bolt holes. While waiting for some 3/16 stainless rod to arrive in the post I was using the counterbore with the drill bit upside down as the pilot. Well the stainless rod arrived in the post today but before I changed out the upside down bit I tested it and sure enough the spiral cutting flutes clamped within the drill chuck was causing the counterbore to operate slightly out of concentric. After fitting the stainless rod as pilot the counterbore ran perfectly true. I tried this out on the new jarrah handle I have been working on and the fit around the saw bolt heads was much more tighter. Very pleased now.

Heres a photo of the jarrah handle after using the counterbore. I kept the saw bolts slightly proud and added the light chamfer as before. It not the best of photo's but you get a reasonable indication of the saw bolt fit.

Stewie;

Hi all. Here are a couple of photo's of the seated saw screws on a scrap piece of timber. The 1 on the left side is flush mounted. The 1 on the right has been bored to the same depth as the flush mount but has the supplied star washer fitted on the underside of the saw bolt to seat it proud with the chamfer added. Its a nice way to present the differences between the 2 ways of installing them.
You will also note that the 2 types of counterbore are completely fitted out with depth stop & 3/16 pilot rod.

Regards Stewie.

What about a side shot and an angled shot to show how much variation there is in the height of the proud one?

If you were going for a flush fit and over tightened it you could always go back and retrofit the washer, no?

Based on this I assume you find that the bolt tightens without spinning fine minus the star washer?

Originally Posted by DSEL74

What about a side shot and an angled shot to show how much variation there is in the height of the proud one?

If you were going for a flush fit and over tightened it you could always go back and retrofit the washer, no?

Based on this I assume you find that the bolt tightens without spinning fine minus the star washer?

Hi Dale. Since using the counterbores I able to leave the 3/16 stem bore to a press fit and have not seen the need to use the washer to stop the bolt from spinning while tightening up the split nut but if going for the flush look it would do no harm to have the star washer installed under the split nut.

After using the counterbore it does pay to use a round file to ream the 3/16 hole lightly to make it easier to push the screw bolts in place. The round file I use has a dia thats near spot on to 3/16. Ideal. I think most chainsaw sharpening files would be of the same size. You might need to check that out prior to your demonstration day. Either that or pm me and I will add mine to the parcel I will send you. By the way the large counterbore in the photo is the one I am sending to you. The depth stop collar is already locked in place at the right height you will need. Just bore down until the stop is touching the handle face. You could also apply a strip of masking tape over the hole location prior to drilling and that should stop any surface marks coming from the underside of the depth stop.

Stewie;

Oops, sorry Stewie, but I like the flush one, hands down.

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi Dale. Since using the counterbores I able to leave the 3/16 stem bore to a press fit and have not seen the need to use the washer to stop the bolt from spinning while tightening up the split nut but if going for the flush look it would do no harm to have the star washer installed under the split nut.

After using the counterbore it does pay to use a round file to ream the 3/16 hole lightly to make it easier to push the screw bolts in place. The round file I use has a dia thats near spot on to 3/16. Ideal. I think most chainsaw sharpening files would be of the same size. You might need to check that out prior to your demonstration day. Either that or pm me and I will add mine to the parcel I will send you. By the way the large counterbore in the photo is the one I am sending to you. The depth stop collar is already locked in place at the right height you will need. Just bore down until the stop is touching the handle face. You could also apply a strip of masking tape over the hole location prior to drilling and that should stop any surface marks coming from the underside of the depth stop.

Stewie;

I am thinking it will be a few years before we know how they wear over time and need retightening. It is an interesting point as obviously it is easier to manufacture and fit the bolts without the square lip on the shank. Most makers are going that way and some don't even supply the star locking washer. Like you they feel they are not needed. It certainly makes life easier when it is kept simple.

I think I have an unused round file suitable that I picked out of someones hard rubbish two weeks ago, knew it be good for something!

Originally Posted by TobyC

Oops, sorry Stewie, but I like the flush one, hands down.

Thats alright Toby. Since getting the counterbores fine tuned to reduce the gaps around the saw bolt flats I am back to thinking the same as you.

Stewie;

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I am thinking it will be a few years before we know how they wear over time and need retightening. It is an interesting point as obviously it is easier to manufacture and fit the bolts without the square lip on the shank. Most makers are going that way and some don't even supply the star locking washer. Like you they feel they are not needed. It certainly makes life easier when it is kept simple.

I think I have an unused round file suitable that I picked out of someones hard rubbish two weeks ago, knew it be good for something!

I agree with your observation Dale. The round shanks are much simpler to instal and work very well. I was just mentioning to Toby that since getting the counterbores to cut at a tighter tolerance I am now leaning towards the flush mounted as the preferred choice for future work. It also keeps the installation more straight forward.

Stewie;

The large counterbore seems to have been made by Comsurge.
They do custom tooling if you want a 7/16.
ComSurge Tooling, Inc.

Originally Posted by hiroller

The large counterbore seems to have been made by Comsurge.
They do custom tooling if you want a 7/16.
ComSurge Tooling, Inc.

I can confirm the larger size is manufactured by Comsurge.

Stewie;

nice handles

Thanks Nick.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I am thinking it will be a few years before we know how they wear over time and need retightening. It is an interesting point as obviously it is easier to manufacture and fit the bolts without the square lip on the shank. Most makers are going that way and some don't even supply the star locking washer. Like you they feel they are not needed. It certainly makes life easier when it is kept simple.

I think I have an unused round file suitable that I picked out of someones hard rubbish two weeks ago, knew it be good for something!

Well, I don't totally condone this system for a couple of reasons. Certainly, it's easier to make a simple round bolt, but having some sort of shank-locking provision is highly desirable, imo. For sure, you can tighten the nuts up easily when they are all nice & new, but once they corrode a little (inevitable over time, no matter how fussy you are!) it will be a very different story. So if I were using these bolts, I certainly wouldn't leave the lock washer out. It complicates flush-mounting, but doesn't make it impossible. I much prefer the share-shank bolts, which are a little more trouble to make, but you can't lose the square on the shank as easily as a washer.

Saw bolts seem to need tightening a few times on a new saw. Wood always wriggles a bit, and especially if you live in a climate with extremes (as ours seems to be, these last few years!). A couple of weeks ago, I had loose handles on just about every tool in my cupboard, saws, planes, the lot - even the very tightly-fitted hoops on some of my chisels were falling off!

I also find it easier to slip the handle off small saws for sharpening - being able to do that quickly & cleanly is a big plus.

As I've just said to Dale, I prefer to get my bolt-holes spot-on, but if you do need to tweak them, chainsaw files are the go, & handle saw-plate easily. They come in a bewildering range of sizes, starting from 1/8th inch (probably smaller, tho I haven't seen any smaller than that) and go up in 1/32nds.

Originally Posted by planemaker

I agree with your observation Dale. The round shanks are much simpler to install and work very well. I was just mentioning to Toby that since getting the counterbores to cut at a tighter tolerance I am now leaning towards the flush mounted as the preferred choice for future work. It also keeps the installation more straight forward.
Stewie;

Stewie, I usually flush-mount, too, but if I use a 'medallion' head, I think it looks better if set proud. Both ways can look quite effective, I think, but it's matter of personal taste.

I bore the countersinks to rough size initially, and tweak them on final assembly with a Forstner bit in my battery drill - a sharp Forstner cuts cleanly & it's quite easy to shave of a few thou at a time to get a perfect fit. Or, if you're nervous, leave the head/nut a fraction proud and sand it flush - 180 grit paper on a block soon whips them into shape (filing is even quicker if you trust yourself with a file - one slip & your nice new handle may have a very nasty scar!).

As always, there are lots of ways to get the covering off the cat, so it's a matter of what gear you've got & how you like to do it........

Cheers,