Thread: Saw Vice Build 2

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

and perhaps Ian can then go back and delete some posts so that Paul can get back to his Saw Vice theme.

Dahhhn't matter to me. I'd already slid off the vice and onto the sharpening - and I was going to finish up this saw and start a fresh thread for the rest of the ripsaws.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

They said only that they count tpi by the top layer ... but I guess it's possible ... maybe even mandatory ... to have different pitches

'cos if you had the same pitch both ways I think you would get a regularly varying interaction pattern, similar to corrugations on a road. I suspect over the length of the file that they might have one large prime number of teeth one way and another large prime number of teeth the other way.
Under the loupe, one can see that the second layer of cuts is considerably shallower than the primary.


Also ... am I comfused here

- When Pferd say "Cut=2" they are referring to a level of coarseness or smoothness, I think.
Correct

- but "Double Cut" and "2nd Cut" I take to mean two crossing sets of teeth - like on my 3-square files.
"Double Cut" = two crossing sets of teeth

"2nd Cut" = "Cut 2" = MEDIUM

By far the easiest way for us to get around this ridiculously clumsy and confusing nomenclature is to use Coarse, Medium, Smooth & Dead Smooth when referring to the finish left be the file, and therefore the file rating - this is how I am going to word the new thread. This will still not get around different tpi for different file sizes, but we'll just have to suck that up I'm afraid - we'll only be dealing with small files anyway.....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Yup, can't think of a sexier topic meself.

We need to get out more.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Also ... am I comfused here

in a word Yes

Originally Posted by pmcgee

- When Pferd say "Cut=2" they are referring to a level of coarseness or smoothness, I think.

I think they are confused as well. Cut n refers to the SP range of coarseness from 0000 - 16 (or thereabouts)

Originally Posted by pmcgee

- but "Double Cut" and "2nd Cut" I take to mean two crossing sets of teeth - like on my 3-square files.

The aggressiveness of a file goes - from coarsest:
Coarse Rough
Rough
Bastard
2nd Cut
Smooth
Superfine
Dead Smooth

Most of these have disappeared.

Double means the way the file is physically cut, compared to Single - and has nothing to do with 2nd cut.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

The aggressiveness of a file goes - from coarsest:
Coarse Rough
Rough
Bastard
2nd Cut
Smooth
Superfine
Dead Smooth

Gawd Blimey - here we go - so a 2nd cut isn't necessarily the second file used anyway. Pretty obvious that this particular nomenclature wasn't developed in Europe.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Gawd Blimey - here we go - so a 2nd cut isn't necessarily the second file used anyway. Pretty obvious that this particular nomenclature wasn't developed in Europe.

Actually, the American Pattern followed England. Smith's Key has - Ruff / Bastard / Middle / Smooth / Float. In Smith's the Hand Saw file is a cross between the current blunt and saw tapers in shape. The taper file is like an SP file, tapering to a point. All hand cut of course.

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In The Starrett Book for Machinists’ Apprentices, 1917 p43 is an equivalence table between grits and files that is quite interesting.

GRADES OF EMERY
The numbers representing the grades of emery run from 8 to 100 (for example, No. 100 means the particles pass through a sieve with 100 meshes to the linear inch, i.e. the CAMI system for coarser grits), and the degree of smoothness of surface they leave may be compared to that left by files as follows:

mesh 6–10 represent the cut of . . a wood rasp
16–20 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a coarse rough file
24–30 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . an ordinary rough file
36–40 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a bastard file
46–60 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a second cut file
70–80. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a smooth file
90–100 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a superfine file
120F and FF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a dead smooth file

I am not sure how accurate this is ...
--------

Files are interesting because the development of the English file making industry and the work of people like Peter Stubbs was essential to the Industrial Revolution. Obviously less so today.

Brett, I hope you are collecting all the old threads, I look forward to seeing the results.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Actually, the American Pattern followed England. Eeee, I don't include England as part of Europe. It was the Poms that gave us the near to useless Imperial measuring system.....



120F and FF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a dead smooth file So, ahh, which one am I....dead or smooth?


Brett, I hope you are collecting all the old threads, I look forward to seeing the results. Yup - readin' em now.

Cheers
FF

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

...120F and FF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a dead smooth file So, ahh, which one am I....dead or smoth?

Maybe a ruff bastard??

Originally Posted by IanW

Maybe a ruff bastard??

You just knew this was coming dincha....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

You just knew this was coming dincha....

Well you did drop your guard uncharacteristically low - how could I resist?

the terms bastard,second cut,smooth ect refer not to the edge you can put on a saw but to the amount of metal that is removed with each
pass ie bastard takes more and so on.It also means that you can put more pressure on the rougher files to work quicker,try taking a heavy handed swipe with smooth cut file and all you will get is the filings jammed between the teeth of the file.

Ok, I've kicked off the Saw Sharpening Files 101 thread.

Sharpening attempts continued ...

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/ripsaw-sharpening-trial-error-burbs-171940/