Thread: Saw Vice Build 2

The Bahco saw files I use come out of Portugal and I have never had a crook one. The bottom cutter lasts as long as the sides and they do last well - finding these when I had tried a number of different more well known names (names from the past) was as much of a revelation as my manual arts teacher explaining(painfully) to me why I should not use a 3 square file on a spearior rip saw

Originally Posted by brontehls

The Bahco saw files ... was as much of a revelation as my manual arts teacher explaining(painfully) to me why I should not use a 3 square file on a spearior rip saw

What did he say???

... ok ... they are for sharp corners, I guess? instead of a rounded gullet?

Paul

Ever tried Pferd files they work pretty well for me chainsaw and circular saws seem to be a bit finer cut than the nicholsons. Ps great threadby the way

Pferd? That's the first I've heard of them. They look the part. Where do you find them 1thumb?

Something around here is Pferd, and I can't think what the hell it is.

PFERD Australia - Catalogues 201 - 209

Pferd make pretty much anything that grinds,cuts or files from memory

Originally Posted by pmcgee

What did he say???

... ok ... they are for sharp corners, I guess? instead of a rounded gullet?

Paul

Three squares have three cut surfaces and the points are just where the cuts coincide - they are thin and brittle as these files are designed to cut one surface only. Saw files have 6 cutting surfaces - you can see where we are going with this. The point is the leading edge and the flats just maintain the edges of the cut. My quick way of telling the files apart is to draw my thumbnail gently up the point from toe to tang - if it cuts a v its a three square - if it feels like starting a rip cut saw its probably a saw file and if it slides its likely to be a three square that's been asked to cut into a gullet or corner. Neil

Originally Posted by 1thumb

Pferd make pretty much anything that grinds,cuts or files from memory

And good quality too in my experience.

Originally Posted by Berlin

What brand files are you using, Paul?

I picked up some NOS Australian Whiltshire's at the TWWS here the other week and they (with no small help from the idiot holding them) ruined the tenon saw I was sharpening. They are useless!
Matt

I think Wiltshire was sourcing files from the Philippines at some stage, useful to check the markings on the errant files, do they say made in Oz? Must say I have found all those I have used to be ok.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by brontehls

Three squares have three cut surfaces and the points are just where the cuts coincide - they are thin and brittle as these files are designed to cut one surface only. Saw files have 6 cutting surfaces - you can see where we are going with this. The point is the leading edge and the flats just maintain the edges of the cut. My quick way of telling the files apart is to draw my thumbnail gently up the point from toe to tang - if it cuts a v its a three square - if it feels like starting a rip cut saw its probably a saw file and if it slides its likely to be a three square that's been asked to cut into a gullet or corner. Neil

Neil, I'm a bit confused by this. My understanding (which could easily be *imperfect*) is that 3 Square is just another name for Triangular (somehow). The bit that confuses me is "Saw files have 6 cutting surfaces" - do you mean that they are still triangular, but the edges are not in fact edges, but slightly flattened (giving a hexagonal profile with the broad sides and 3 very narrow sides - which would normally be the edges)? If this is the case then you would end up with flat or rounded gullets, rather than a true "V"?

Comparing this terminology to that of Liogier (files), they talk about "3 Square", and also "Triangular with rounded edges". If my logic is right here then you would be referring to the latter as "Saw Files" for use where a rounded gullet is required?

Cheers
Brett

There are two major differences between saw files and 3 square files as I understand it. 3 square are double cut, saw files single cut - 3 square cut more aggressively and leave a rougher surface, used by some for shaping teeth, followed by saw files for sharpening. The other difference is that the edge of a 3 square files is not rounded unlike a saw file, leaving a sharper gullet, which may cause saw plate cracking in hard plates and if used improperly.

Note you can get blunt saw files, sometimes called machete files for some reason.

3 Square (American Pattern) files are available in Bastard, 2nd cut and Smooth; and available in 6", 8", 10' length. The files are a tad thicker than Regular saw files, so leave a wide gullet on anything with high ppi. Saw files are 2nd cut only, and of course come in lengths from 3" - 10". As someone said the edges of saw files are cut (Nicholson 1942 catalog info); I do not know whether 3 square files have cut edges, but I suspect not (Nicholson 1942 catalog does not say), thus very sharp edges.

Swiss Pattern (and I think Nicholson still sources such from Switzerland) 3 square files are another story. Length ranges from 3" - 10" and in Cuts from 00 to 4 and in width are equivalent to Slim Taper. Note these files are double cut on the faces and single cut on the edges, perhaps not as aggressive in the gullets. I have not seen/used such files, they are more tapered than saw files, and will be dear. Die Sinkers files are 3.5" and Cuts 0,1,2, and equivalent width to a Slim Taper saw file.

Needle files are 3 square and available in Cuts 0,2,4,6 and quite short, max length (overall) 6.25", and as Ian says $$$. There are longer needle files than the Nicholson catalog.

All data above is from the 1942 Nicholson Distributor Catalog. Trust this helps.

Last I enquired (some years ago, I tried to get wholesale status for TTTG, unsuccessfully), Bahco did not stock in Oz the smaller saw files - hopefully that has changed.

Of course if you can source some NOS English handcut saw files... saw sharpening nirvana.

Cheers
Peter

No 'made in' info on my cheese files. I'm just going to bin them. I don't want to pick one up by mistake at some point in the future.

Originally Posted by Berlin

No 'made in' info on my cheese files. I'm just going to bin them. I don't want to pick one up by mistake at some point in the future.

Ah, I think Wiltshire files always had Australia on them. I just checked some 4" saw files (with a magnifier, my eyes are getting pretty ordinary as 70 looms) and they are marked AUSTRALIA.

Thamks Peter

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Needle files are 3 square and available in Cuts 0,2,4,6 and quite short, max length (overall) 6.25", and as Ian says $$$. There are longer needle files than the Nicholson catalog.

I'm posting to Ian (in a few minutes), a Batard, Mi-Doux, and Doux set of three Needle Files (double cut), overall 180mm, about $8 each, so we'll see what they are like (when he gets back to Brissie).