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Thread: Saw Vice Build 2
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28th May 2013, 03:30 PM #31
DSEL copied this over ...
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/henry-disston-saws-169122/
Rip Saws
Fig. 1 is a four-point rip or slitting saw with the rake all in front, where the cutting duty is. This saw should be filed square across, filing one-half the teeth from each side after setting, which will give a slight bevel to the cutting edge of tooth, as it should be for soft wood; for medium hard woods a finer toothed saw with five points to the inch should be used and dressed in the same manner; for the very hardest and toughest cross-grained woods a still finer toothed saw is required, with the teeth filed slightly beveling, as ripping cross-grained stuff partakes a little of the nature of cross-cutting.
This is old old ... but recent activities made me look at it a bit closer than normal
Here's another bit ...
WHAT CONSTITUTES HAND and RIP SAWS?
As a matter of interest it may be stated whilst there is a general understanding in the Hardware Trade that Handsaws are 26 inches long and Rip saws 28 inches long, this is not carried out by facts. There are a great many Rip saws made of shorter lengths, such as 22 and 24 inch, for the term "Rip" applies to shape and style of tooth only and not to the length of the saw. Likewise the Cross-cut or Cutting-off saws may be made in any length desired. As to the graduation of teeth in Rip Saws, the purpose of this is to enable the user to start the saw in the work more easily by commencing the cut with the end or point of blade where the teeth are somewhat finer than those at the butt.
Daryl Weyr and others over at woodnet.net have been talking about having same rake/finer pitched teeth at the front of a (rip?) saw to help with starting, rather than varying the rake.
But ... changing the pitch requires major surgery on an existing saw ... unless you 'just' double the pitch at the front.
(...
In the/some Disston catalogues say 1900-1920 they say that ripsaws (possibly meaning either 26"+ or 28"+) come from the factory 1ppi finer at the toe than at the heel.)
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29th May 2013, 12:44 AM #32Senior Member
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Bahco saw files
The Bahco saw files I use come out of Portugal and I have never had a crook one. The bottom cutter lasts as long as the sides and they do last well - finding these when I had tried a number of different more well known names (names from the past) was as much of a revelation as my manual arts teacher explaining(painfully) to me why I should not use a 3 square file on a spearior rip saw
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29th May 2013, 03:29 AM #33
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29th May 2013, 08:03 PM #34Senior Member
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Ever tried Pferd files they work pretty well for me chainsaw and circular saws seem to be a bit finer cut than the nicholsons. Ps great threadby the way
Last edited by 1thumb; 29th May 2013 at 08:09 PM. Reason: forgot sumpthing
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29th May 2013, 09:32 PM #35
Saw Vice Build 2
Pferd? That's the first I've heard of them. They look the part. Where do you find them 1thumb?
...I'll just make the other bits smaller.
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29th May 2013, 10:44 PM #36
Something around here is Pferd, and I can't think what the hell it is.
PFERD Australia - Catalogues 201 - 209
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29th May 2013, 11:11 PM #37Senior Member
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Pferd make pretty much anything that grinds,cuts or files from memory
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30th May 2013, 12:05 AM #38Senior Member
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Three square files
Three squares have three cut surfaces and the points are just where the cuts coincide - they are thin and brittle as these files are designed to cut one surface only. Saw files have 6 cutting surfaces - you can see where we are going with this. The point is the leading edge and the flats just maintain the edges of the cut. My quick way of telling the files apart is to draw my thumbnail gently up the point from toe to tang - if it cuts a v its a three square - if it feels like starting a rip cut saw its probably a saw file and if it slides its likely to be a three square that's been asked to cut into a gullet or corner. Neil
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30th May 2013, 01:25 AM #39SENIOR MEMBER
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31st May 2013, 02:15 PM #40SENIOR MEMBER
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31st May 2013, 02:55 PM #41
Neil, I'm a bit confused by this. My understanding (which could easily be *imperfect*) is that 3 Square is just another name for Triangular (somehow). The bit that confuses me is "Saw files have 6 cutting surfaces" - do you mean that they are still triangular, but the edges are not in fact edges, but slightly flattened (giving a hexagonal profile with the broad sides and 3 very narrow sides - which would normally be the edges)? If this is the case then you would end up with flat or rounded gullets, rather than a true "V"?
Comparing this terminology to that of Liogier (files), they talk about "3 Square", and also "Triangular with rounded edges". If my logic is right here then you would be referring to the latter as "Saw Files" for use where a rounded gullet is required?
Cheers
Brett
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31st May 2013, 03:53 PM #42SENIOR MEMBER
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There are two major differences between saw files and 3 square files as I understand it. 3 square are double cut, saw files single cut - 3 square cut more aggressively and leave a rougher surface, used by some for shaping teeth, followed by saw files for sharpening. The other difference is that the edge of a 3 square files is not rounded unlike a saw file, leaving a sharper gullet, which may cause saw plate cracking in hard plates and if used improperly.
Note you can get blunt saw files, sometimes called machete files for some reason.
3 Square (American Pattern) files are available in Bastard, 2nd cut and Smooth; and available in 6", 8", 10' length. The files are a tad thicker than Regular saw files, so leave a wide gullet on anything with high ppi. Saw files are 2nd cut only, and of course come in lengths from 3" - 10". As someone said the edges of saw files are cut (Nicholson 1942 catalog info); I do not know whether 3 square files have cut edges, but I suspect not (Nicholson 1942 catalog does not say), thus very sharp edges.
Swiss Pattern (and I think Nicholson still sources such from Switzerland) 3 square files are another story. Length ranges from 3" - 10" and in Cuts from 00 to 4 and in width are equivalent to Slim Taper. Note these files are double cut on the faces and single cut on the edges, perhaps not as aggressive in the gullets. I have not seen/used such files, they are more tapered than saw files, and will be dear. Die Sinkers files are 3.5" and Cuts 0,1,2, and equivalent width to a Slim Taper saw file.
Needle files are 3 square and available in Cuts 0,2,4,6 and quite short, max length (overall) 6.25", and as Ian says $$$. There are longer needle files than the Nicholson catalog.
All data above is from the 1942 Nicholson Distributor Catalog. Trust this helps.
Last I enquired (some years ago, I tried to get wholesale status for TTTG, unsuccessfully), Bahco did not stock in Oz the smaller saw files - hopefully that has changed.
Of course if you can source some NOS English handcut saw files... saw sharpening nirvana.
Cheers
Peter
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31st May 2013, 04:18 PM #43
Saw Vice Build 2
No 'made in' info on my cheese files. I'm just going to bin them. I don't want to pick one up by mistake at some point in the future.
...I'll just make the other bits smaller.
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31st May 2013, 04:28 PM #44SENIOR MEMBER
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31st May 2013, 04:41 PM #45
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