Thread: Wenzloff dovetail saw rehab and upgrade.

Very nice work Rob. I personally prefer it when the spine is mortised much lower so it doesn't clash with the profile of the birds mouth. But that's not a fault of your work.

Stewie;

Very nice safe there Rob
And a great little write up on how it was all pulled together

Matt


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I have one of these, but no handle problems... so far

Originally Posted by planemaker

Very nice work Rob. I personally prefer it when the spine is mortised much lower so it doesn't clash with the profile of the birds mouth. But that's not a fault of your work.

Stewie;

Hi Stewie,

I agree about the positioning of the back, unfortunately as this saw has a glued-in blade there's not much I can do short of major surgery or an organ transplant to rectify that particular fitting issue.

Rob

Yesterday I had decided to just fix up the handle situation and clean up the blade. After posting the above and spending some time looking at the saw I decided that I wanted it to look better, after all it is a $160 dovetail saw and for my money it ought to look at least as good as it performs. Thus I decided to fix the following cosmetic issues.

1) Timing of the medallion - it's a little off.




Easily fixed by adjusting the screw bolster mortise.

2) Next, there was a lot of what appears to be glue at the joint of the blade and the back. This saw came in a box with a Lee Valley inventory tag on it so I had a quick look and it appears that the dovetail saw that they have pictured also has a line of glue just below the bottom lip of the back. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,42884,57152
In any event, it had to go - made the saw look dirty. I think it's the glue used to attach the blade to the back because it has a bluish green tinge.

The glue was present at the toe,




On the opposite side at the heel




and in the middle of the blade.




3) The handle also had a few bandsaw marks around the houndstooth.




4) Unfortunately there's no fixing this.




I disassembled the saw and set to work. First I lapped the blade with a 74 micron Diapad and used wet-or-dry with a wedge to get the glue out of the blade-back joint area. Most of it that is.




I buffed the blade, screw heads and back with gray compound, shaved the mortise for the medallion screw bolster to straighten it up and used a riffler to clean up the saw marks on the handle.




I also stripped the handle of the original Danish oil finish and gave it a wax and shellac treatment.








It's a little bit Elvis-flashy for my taste but at least it's not grungy anymore.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

I have one of these, but no handle problems... so far

Does yours have makers marks on the spine? The version pictured on the Lee Valley item page doesn't, nor did mine. This one however does:




The sellers description indicated that he had purchased this saw from Lee Valley as well, left it in the box and only discovered the stamping when he opened it to make pictures for the eBay sale. I wonder if there are some with and some without stamps that vary on the basis of certain dates. Should be a boon for collectors.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Does yours have makers marks on the spine? The version pictured on the Lee Valley item page doesn't, nor did mine. This one however does:




The sellers description indicated that he had purchased this saw from Lee Valley as well, left it in the box and only discovered the stamping when he opened it to make pictures for the eBay sale. I wonder if there are some with and some without stamps that vary on the basis of certain dates. Should be a boon for collectors.

Rob, mine came from Lee Valley, and is the same as yours, ie medallion but not mark on spine. There is no evidence of glue below back, and the handle has no blemishes. Originally the Wenzloff saws had no medallion. Some years ago Rob Lee lent three Wenzloff demo saws to TTTG for a back saws comparison - the dovetail saw had a medallion, the 11" and 12" saws did not (I guess this was the time that Mike was introducing medallions); rather than me posting the saws back to LV, Rob offered them to me at an attractive price... and so here they stayed.

On aesthetics, I am coming around to the view that we are making saws, not fine furniture, and the odd rasp mark is part of the tool. Ron Bontz is making saws too beautiful to actually use! And Stewie makes beautiful saws as well - are they too fine to actually use? I suspect few purchasers actually uses a Holtey plane.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Rob, mine came from Lee Valley, and is the same as yours, ie medallion but not mark on spine. There is no evidence of glue below back, and the handle has no blemishes. Originally the Wenzloff saws had no medallion. Some years ago Rob Lee lent three Wenzloff demo saws to TTTG for a back saws comparison - the dovetail saw had a medallion, the 11" and 12" saws did not (I guess this was the time that Mike was introducing medallions); rather than me posting the saws back to LV, Rob offered them to me at an attractive price... and so here they stayed.

On aesthetics, I am coming around to the view that we are making saws, not fine furniture, and the odd rasp mark is part of the tool. Ron Bontz is making saws too beautiful to actually use! And Stewie makes beautiful saws as well - are they too fine to actually use? I suspect few purchasers actually uses a Holtey plane.

Cheers
Peter

Peter,

I hew to more utilitarian finishes, I think that they are less likely to inhibit use.

I have a number of very nicely finished tools in my collection but I don't consider any of them too pretty to use. I prioritize function over finish but I want at least good finish, not communist-drab.

I think that the act of using a tool, no matter how fine, honors the effort and skill of the maker. Museums are filled with artifacts that are like insects trapped in amber, evocative and beautiful but ultimately only testaments.

Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob. We share different values within our work. I set no time restraints or targets. If it takes me 24 hrs to make a quality backsaw that's fine by me. Most of my saw making work is all done by hand. I set a high value on traditional skills. I also dont treat the proceeds of my tool making sales as any serious source of income. As a result I can remain very competitive with my pricing. I also treat each of my backsaws as a representation of my own individual skills as a saw maker. I do not try and compete with the other major players in the boutique saw market. I am quite happy just making a small number of backsaws a year. I have other hobbies and new skills I would like to spend more time on.

regards Stewie;

Hi Peter. You can get a set of 3 Veritas backsaws for an extra Au$50.00 compared to cost of 1 of my backsaws. There not pretty to look at IMO but since you are not overly concerned with the aesthetics of a hand saw it may well suit your needs perfectly. I have heard they are quite popular in the USA.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...884,68511&ap=1

regards Stewie;

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi Rob. We share different values within our work. I set no time restraints or targets. If it takes me 24 hrs to make a quality backsaw that's fine by me. Most of my saw making work is all done by hand. I set a high value on traditional skills. I also dont treat the proceeds of my tool making sales as any serious source of income. As a result I can remain very competitive with my pricing. I also treat each of my backsaws as a representation of my own individual skills as a saw maker. I do not try and compete with the other major players in the boutique saw market. I am quite happy just making a small number of backsaws a year. I have other hobbies and new skills I would like to spend more time on.

regards Stewie;

I agree Stewie. We are making luxury items and as such a number of important factors apply. First and most important, tastes vary. Who's to argue with taste? Given the number of boutique makers out there right now a buyer can select from a range of finishes and styles. I prefer traditional style and advanced technology and I'm sure some find that perplexing. To each his own.
Second, collectors markets aren't saturable. Does a stamp collector ever consider his or her collection complete? The saw makers operating in the modern era have produced many fine pieces with each maker having a unique style and techniques.
Third, nobody is going to 'dominate' the custom saw market. Lie Nielsen has probably produced and sold more new era saws than anybody else but there is a lot of room for all of us small makers. The idea that we compete for customers is flawed because most saw aficionado's, myself included, have saws from several custom makers and seek saws from a number of makers, not just one.
Finally, I think that people want custom saws, they don't 'need' them in the way that one needs food and water. There are after all cheaper and more efficient ways to cut wood than using a custom handsaw. I really think that there's plenty of room for everybody in this field of endeavor.
Given all of the above, I don't feel myself to be in competition with anybody but myself. I try to make each successive saw I create better than it's predecessor. It may seem strange but I think it's fun. Making saws is also a way of dissipating the pressures of my real profession. I also like working with my hands and I like the community that participates online (mostly).

Here's to handsaws!
Rob

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi Peter. You can get a set of 3 Veritas backsaws for an extra Au$50.00 compared to cost of 1 of my backsaws. There not pretty to look at IMO but since you are not overly concerned with the aesthetics of a hand saw it may well suit your needs perfectly. I have heard they are quite popular in the USA.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...884,68511&ap=1

regards Stewie;

I'm sure that this saw works very well too and for some it's all the saw they want at $9.99.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-FatMax...isston+backsaw

I have some saws like this and I use them quite a bit.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I'm sure that this saw works very well too and for some it's all the saw they want at $9.99.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-FatMax...isston+backsaw

I have some saws like this and I use them quite a bit.

Hi Rob, The only hardpoint I have came in an auction box lot with a light coating of rust that never seems to get any worse. Whenever I am sawing up old stuff (or demolishing an old built-in wardrobe), that is what I use for breakdown - for some reason I don't like hitting nails or screws with my good saws. My best hand saw is a 1950s Sandvik I refurbished - superb steel, virtually full size, even with the plastic handle, tracks so well; I was given this saw, owner considered it a dead loss (it was very blunt, and covered in rust - but not pitted as it happened so shined up well - I like to see the square reflection)!

Originally Posted by planemaker
Hi Peter. You can get a set of 3 Veritas backsaws for an extra Au$50.00 compared to cost of 1 of my backsaws. There not pretty to look at IMO but since you are not overly concerned with the aesthetics of a hand saw it may well suit your needs perfectly. I have heard they are quite popular in the USA. regards Stewie

Hi Stewie, I have used the Veritas dovetail saw, and it is good, handle is not so comfortable for me though. I was not clear in my comments above - aesthetics are important, ugly saws are usually uncomfortable and probably do not cut well either. However if the saw is well made, sharp teeth, handle shaped for the user - using a sound handle design (lots in history, I like Isaac's generally), good usable finish (shellac and wax works for me) - I feel that is a good point for me to stop, and ask myself - now what else do I do to make this better?

Cheers
Peter