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Thread: Chisels Breaking
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28th February 2018, 06:22 AM #31SENIOR MEMBER
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Remember that White Paper #1 is a super low volume custom "boutique" steel... Hitachi developed it specifically for the Japanese specialty sword and cutting edge market as a replacement for the traditional Tamahagane steel... They only make a small amount each year and just getting it is notoriously difficult..... I believe it is still made from ore - not recycled steel....
There is no comparison between White #1 and standard AISI/DIN/standard spec W1, O1, or 1095 which are made worldwide and supply thousands of tons a year.. With those guys - they just slosh in a bit more alloying elements to deal with the S, P, and other contaminants that come in via junk yard recycled metal steel stream..
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28th February 2018, 06:44 AM #32GOLD MEMBER
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It's not that hard to get white steel. It's hard to get a pallet full of it, but as long as there's a market for white 1 at a price that hitachi wants to make it, there will be white 1. If they don't serve the market, some other engineered products type steelmaker will make it.
I bought some laminated white 2 a couple of weeks ago to make a few pocket knife blades. A short billet still in the paper, enough to make two or three knives was $27 delivered, prelaminated. (I didn't try to find white 1, because I'm pretty sure I couldn't harden it to a level where it's any better than white 2).
I think the market is the limiting factor, and not the maker. W1 and O1, etc....presumably most of that is sold for diemaking or specialty applications. there is very little in terms of purpose-made blade steel in the US aside from the budding powder metallurgy blade steel market. They don't seem to focus on very plain steels, probably because those steels are poorly behaved when heat treating and most of the diemaking steels have been going toward minimizing post-hardening machining costs. Most of the things that make steel behave well when being quenched also make it crappy at holding an acute edge while being easy to sharpen.
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28th February 2018, 11:36 AM #33
Where'd you get that White steel DW?
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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28th February 2018, 01:06 PM #34SENIOR MEMBER
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Realistically - if Carpenter or somebody like that thought they could make enough money on a super high purity plain carbon steel for the US domestic market - they would make it.... I mean - think of the awesomeness of a CPM 1.5%+ Carbon plain carbon steel with just enough alloy in it to keep the ultra fine grain structure we need.. And keep it in Iron Carbides we could sharpen properly rather than the W, Cr, and V carbides that make an ultra durable self-serrating slicing knife - and a horrible chisel that perennially cuts like it is half dull...
It just feels like there really isn't the demand for this among custom makers like there is for fancy pants super duper alloys... Probably because those super alloys can make a super tough knife that cuts rope and meat like mad...
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28th February 2018, 01:19 PM #35GOLD MEMBER
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I think a 1.5% carbon alloy would actually cut meat and rope longer. I've seen people talk about how surprised they are with the cutting ability of tidioute's 1095 (because it can support a relatively thin angle that stays fairly thin even as it wears - same principle as a straight razor).
I think the biggest downfall of white 1 for knife enthusiasts is that a lot of people buy a ton of stuff and rarely use it. If you put white steel out of sight and out of mind, it's rusty the next time you look at it.
I would really like it, though.
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12th March 2018, 09:07 PM #36Senior Member
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Hi, Sorry to hear of your loss. The silver lining is that you now have a couple of really nice butt chisels. The only possibility I can see is that some pre existing damage has been revealed by the acids action.Maybe it converted some gunk that was just holding the chisel together to something that's weaker and the fault was revealed. Don't toss the tips away good steel is always handy.
All the best in your grief.
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13th March 2018, 11:23 AM #37SENIOR MEMBER
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Check to see if the remainder is properly hard... Often - chisel blades like that were only hardened about halfway down the iron..
If it is not hard and you want to make a butt chisel... All is not lost.. Grind a bevel to about 25 degrees. Use a good torch and heat about 1" of chisel to nonmagnetic. Quench in oil. Test for hard with a good fine cut file. If the file skates - it is hard. If not - reheat to nonmagnetic and quench in brine (heavily salted water...). Test again with a file. If not hard - throw it away. If it is hard - temper to 425-450 degrees F. Flatten the back, sharpen up per your normal routine and off you go...
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4th April 2018, 12:22 PM #38New Member
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My shop cleaner of choice is called Napthta used with steel wool. It will clean most things and doesn't make problems like some of the other cleaners. Then oil tool, or wax, your choice.
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