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11th July 2017, 12:00 PM #16Member
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I had a feeling that was the case regarding quality and hardness of the Mcjing chisels blanks, a bit soft for the type of work I do however as you say handy. As for the need to harden and temper them after shaping the answer is yes, but given the small size it should not be too much trouble to get an even heat. And I also have a spare toaster over that will be put to use. for this.
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11th July 2017, 12:04 PM #17Member
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Kestrel Tools Elbow adzes are the great from what I have heard I know of a professional carver who uses them. He also likes North Bay forges Adzes for heavy work.
I should be picking up steel this week and I might even get some forging started I will see how time works out.
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11th July 2017, 12:17 PM #18Member
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11th July 2017, 12:58 PM #19GOLD MEMBER
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11th July 2017, 01:40 PM #20
Tapatalk is playing up again... Can't edit down a previous post to just the relevant section for a reply.
Anyway, on McJing steel blanks, they are mixed quality. Some are as good as any steel I use for turning while others are ordinary. It's a gamble!
But, a good source of steel to practice on.
As for $160 chisels, some are well worth it IMO while others have inflated prices based on the fame of the maker. The art of buying Japanese handforged blades is to find the sweet spot, ie a well made blade from a not-as-yet well known maker.
I look forward to hearing how you go with making you own blades.
Sent from my ZTE T84 using TapatalkStay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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11th July 2017, 01:48 PM #21
Yes, I'm with Arron in looking forward to some WIPs or at least pix.
I feel obliged to just offer a word of caution in using files. They are indeed an excellent source of high carbon steel, but be wary: Actually make that be extremely wary. Of course they are extremely brittle, although they will return to a normalised state during the annealing process, BUT, they will still have all those lines of teeth in them and these are potential lines of weakness. They are not recommended for any tool likely to undergo stress. In particular this would apply to turning tools. At the very least all the file teeth have to be removed well below the surface. In practice this hardly becomes worth the effort. Certainly for a carving tool and knives this caveat may not be so critical, but leaf spring (or coil spring) material is readily available and probably at least as good.
Circular saw blades are another source of high carbon steel.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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11th July 2017, 07:02 PM #22
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11th July 2017, 07:57 PM #23
Thanks Neil for endorsing the warning.
There was a thread two or three years back that showed a video of a wood turning accident where a file disintegrated with very unfortunate results. It was originally posted by Retired I think, but I could not track it down.
If you or anybody else can link the video, I think it would be a good moment and better than any warning we could give.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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11th July 2017, 08:19 PM #24Member
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I am well a wear of the fault/fractures that can occur at the bottom of file teeth as I know a number of knife makers who use old rasps and some grind all the way down as one should. Sadly some don't I would never consider using used steel for high stress tools like turning gouges or chisels as this is the asking for trouble as older steels are often too brittle for such applications.
Thanks for the warning though its often not something that every one considers when make cutting tools.
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13th July 2017, 07:28 AM #25GOLD MEMBER
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Two threads in one! Some discuss wood turning tools, others discuss wood carving tools. Obviously, the load-bearing characteristics are dramatically different.
Old files and spring leaves are superlative metal sources for wood carving tools of the styles found in the Pacific Northwest.
I get 1/2 the work done by starting with farrier's hoof knives that are too worn/sharpened to be of service. Life-time of carving steel in them yet.
You can buy Hall (Canada) farrier's hoof knives in Australia just as easily as I can buy them in Canada. I've spent $50 each, new.
More than 1/2 the blade is gone by the time I ask for used ones, I give the farrier $5 each and he's happy.
Revise the bevels to 12 degrees from approx 25 degrees. Open the scorp with a 3/16" chainsaw file.
Just about have 6 of them ready to carve with for a total of not 20 yet.
Mora #171 & #188 and Diamond #271 are fairly soft metal but they carve OK. Ukal/Supervet (France) is almost as hard as the Hall blades.
If I'm lucky, I can get a Swiss Oregon chainsaw file to last for 2 knives before it goes shiny!
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13th July 2017, 08:33 AM #26
If you can get it W1 alloy is among the cheapest of available tool steels and files are reportedly made of it. W-1 Flat Stock - Online Metal Store
Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.
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13th July 2017, 02:53 PM #27
"Two threads in one! Some discuss wood turning tools, others discuss wood carving tools. Obviously, the load-bearing characteristics are dramatically different."
Yes, RV, but if you strike a carving chisel/gouge with a hammer or mallet you are also putting a load on the blade.
Kate begun her thread by saying she was planning to add a push handle to the blades she is thinking about forging. A pushed blade has relatively little force exerted on it.
But, we can't assume that everyone that reads this thread in the future will make blades that are only pushed. I think it is important that we raise the potential risk from re-purposed files if they will be struck.
It may be that the blades made in the Pacific Northwest from re-purposed files are never struck and therefore this is not an issue for them.
If the discussion here is just on hand pushed blades then nothing further needs to be said about re-purposed files.
Leaving that issue aside RV, your input on good value for money wood carving tools is invaluable, I'm sure.
While on sources of steel for blades, re-purposed printer carriage bars are another source. Every dump has them nowadays. Car valve rods is another.
Sent from my ZTE T84 using TapatalkStay sharp and stay safe!
Neil
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13th July 2017, 03:17 PM #28GOLD MEMBER
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This is all well and good but the wood turning tools talk got mixed into this thread about carving tools. That was my confusion.
Striking a file-made gouge can't be much of a stress as the strikes have to be shallow to get anything done.
Even if you broke one, I can't see the pieces go whanging off your shop walls.
Anything more than that and I'd be reaching for my elbow adze or my D adze.
Thanks for the suggestion regarding valve stems. I'd go for those but I have an abundance
of worn out Swiss Oregon chainsaw files at the moment for metal.
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13th July 2017, 07:16 PM #29
Possibly I am the guilty party here in "extending" the scope of the thread, but from other threads Kate has posted I am aware she is very interested in resurrecting bespoke tools and associated lost arts. I guess that promoted my thinking in raising awareness. It is a mistake to assume knowledge. I did not want anybody on the basis of this thread to use files, which are admittedly good sources of high carbon steel, for unsuitable purposes. At least we have unequivocally established the dangers.
Just on vehicle valve stems, and at the risk of making this a "three in one thread," they make very passable centre punches providing they are ground to a point without drawing the temper. Big truck motors are the best source.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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13th July 2017, 10:07 PM #30Woodworking mechanic
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Word of warning on using vehicle valves. Just make sure they aren't sodium filled. Usually can be picked out as they have thick stems.
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