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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arron View Post
    They are a bit soft and dont hold a particularly good edge.

    I likened them above to the marples tools which were sold in every hardware store a few years ago when there were enough people interested in carving to make it worthwhile - that sort of middle-market tool.

    Good for soft wood but not hardwood and not mallet work

    I bought a range. V's, tiny flats, 'hooks' and fishtails. If you are in the neighbourhood you should drop in and get some of the rarely used shapes/sizes - that you will probably never otherwise own. If you have ever wondered how Asian carvers do those things with multiple carvings one inside the other, that's what the hooks are used for.

    The other blanks and finished carving tools that this vendor sold I did not like at all.

    A question
    With the coil spring steel - do you need to harden and temper it after shaping?
    I had a feeling that was the case regarding quality and hardness of the Mcjing chisels blanks, a bit soft for the type of work I do however as you say handy. As for the need to harden and temper them after shaping the answer is yes, but given the small size it should not be too much trouble to get an even heat. And I also have a spare toaster over that will be put to use. for this.

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  3. #17
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    Kestrel Tools Elbow adzes are the great from what I have heard I know of a professional carver who uses them. He also likes North Bay forges Adzes for heavy work.

    I should be picking up steel this week and I might even get some forging started I will see how time works out.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robson Valley View Post
    In this day and time, I'd be inclined to buy metal with predictable working characteristics.
    Haida Gwaii and the north coast are remote. A century ago would have been no better. No metal stock sources.

    But old leaf springs would have been a ready source of adze blades, both then and now.
    Any old & rusty file would have been stock for crooked knives as it has been in Canada since 1700 or earlier.
    This is how I am also my take on going minimalist woodworking and reduce wast by reusing material that would other wise be put into landfill

    as well as to save money.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate84TS View Post
    Kestrel Tools Elbow adzes are the great from what I have heard I know of a professional carver who uses them. He also likes North Bay forges Adzes for heavy work.

    I should be picking up steel this week and I might even get some forging started I will see how time works out.
    I hope you are going to be doing WIP posts, with photos.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    There is considerable satisfaction in making your own tools, but if you decide to buy there are a few options that don't cost as much as $300+

    https://www.japanwoodworker.com/cate.../carving-tools

    Carving Tools

    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    Tapatalk is playing up again... Can't edit down a previous post to just the relevant section for a reply.

    Anyway, on McJing steel blanks, they are mixed quality. Some are as good as any steel I use for turning while others are ordinary. It's a gamble!

    But, a good source of steel to practice on.

    As for $160 chisels, some are well worth it IMO while others have inflated prices based on the fame of the maker. The art of buying Japanese handforged blades is to find the sweet spot, ie a well made blade from a not-as-yet well known maker.

    I look forward to hearing how you go with making you own blades.


    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  7. #21
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    Yes, I'm with Arron in looking forward to some WIPs or at least pix.

    I feel obliged to just offer a word of caution in using files. They are indeed an excellent source of high carbon steel, but be wary: Actually make that be extremely wary. Of course they are extremely brittle, although they will return to a normalised state during the annealing process, BUT, they will still have all those lines of teeth in them and these are potential lines of weakness. They are not recommended for any tool likely to undergo stress. In particular this would apply to turning tools. At the very least all the file teeth have to be removed well below the surface. In practice this hardly becomes worth the effort. Certainly for a carving tool and knives this caveat may not be so critical, but leaf spring (or coil spring) material is readily available and probably at least as good.

    Circular saw blades are another source of high carbon steel.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Yes, I'm with Arron in looking forward to some WIPs or at least pix.

    I feel obliged to just offer a word of caution in using files. They are indeed an excellent source of high carbon steel, but be wary: Actually make that be extremely wary. Of course they are extremely brittle, although they will return to a normalised state during the annealing process, BUT, they will still have all those lines of teeth in them and these are potential lines of weakness. They are not recommended for any tool likely to undergo stress. In particular this would apply to turning tools. At the very least all the file teeth have to be removed well below the surface. In practice this hardly becomes worth the effort. Certainly for a carving tool and knives this caveat may not be so critical, but leaf spring (or coil spring) material is readily available and probably at least as good.

    Circular saw blades are another source of high carbon steel.

    Regards
    Paul
    +1 on the caution about using old files.

    I refuse to allow them in any workshop where I'm teaching turning for all of the reasons Paul has given.





    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  9. #23
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    Thanks Neil for endorsing the warning.

    There was a thread two or three years back that showed a video of a wood turning accident where a file disintegrated with very unfortunate results. It was originally posted by Retired I think, but I could not track it down.

    If you or anybody else can link the video, I think it would be a good moment and better than any warning we could give.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilS View Post
    +1 on the caution about using old files.

    I refuse to allow them in any workshop where I'm teaching turning for all of the reasons Paul has given.



    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    I am well a wear of the fault/fractures that can occur at the bottom of file teeth as I know a number of knife makers who use old rasps and some grind all the way down as one should. Sadly some don't I would never consider using used steel for high stress tools like turning gouges or chisels as this is the asking for trouble as older steels are often too brittle for such applications.
    Thanks for the warning though its often not something that every one considers when make cutting tools.

  11. #25
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    Two threads in one! Some discuss wood turning tools, others discuss wood carving tools. Obviously, the load-bearing characteristics are dramatically different.
    Old files and spring leaves are superlative metal sources for wood carving tools of the styles found in the Pacific Northwest.
    I get 1/2 the work done by starting with farrier's hoof knives that are too worn/sharpened to be of service. Life-time of carving steel in them yet.

    You can buy Hall (Canada) farrier's hoof knives in Australia just as easily as I can buy them in Canada. I've spent $50 each, new.
    More than 1/2 the blade is gone by the time I ask for used ones, I give the farrier $5 each and he's happy.
    Revise the bevels to 12 degrees from approx 25 degrees. Open the scorp with a 3/16" chainsaw file.
    Just about have 6 of them ready to carve with for a total of not 20 yet.

    Mora #171 & #188 and Diamond #271 are fairly soft metal but they carve OK. Ukal/Supervet (France) is almost as hard as the Hall blades.
    If I'm lucky, I can get a Swiss Oregon chainsaw file to last for 2 knives before it goes shiny!

  12. #26
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    If you can get it W1 alloy is among the cheapest of available tool steels and files are reportedly made of it. W-1 Flat Stock - Online Metal Store


    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  13. #27
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    "Two threads in one! Some discuss wood turning tools, others discuss wood carving tools. Obviously, the load-bearing characteristics are dramatically different."

    Yes, RV, but if you strike a carving chisel/gouge with a hammer or mallet you are also putting a load on the blade.

    Kate begun her thread by saying she was planning to add a push handle to the blades she is thinking about forging. A pushed blade has relatively little force exerted on it.

    But, we can't assume that everyone that reads this thread in the future will make blades that are only pushed. I think it is important that we raise the potential risk from re-purposed files if they will be struck.

    It may be that the blades made in the Pacific Northwest from re-purposed files are never struck and therefore this is not an issue for them.

    If the discussion here is just on hand pushed blades then nothing further needs to be said about re-purposed files.

    Leaving that issue aside RV, your input on good value for money wood carving tools is invaluable, I'm sure.

    While on sources of steel for blades, re-purposed printer carriage bars are another source. Every dump has them nowadays. Car valve rods is another.


    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  14. #28
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    This is all well and good but the wood turning tools talk got mixed into this thread about carving tools. That was my confusion.

    Striking a file-made gouge can't be much of a stress as the strikes have to be shallow to get anything done.
    Even if you broke one, I can't see the pieces go whanging off your shop walls.

    Anything more than that and I'd be reaching for my elbow adze or my D adze.

    Thanks for the suggestion regarding valve stems. I'd go for those but I have an abundance
    of worn out Swiss Oregon chainsaw files at the moment for metal.

  15. #29
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    Possibly I am the guilty party here in "extending" the scope of the thread, but from other threads Kate has posted I am aware she is very interested in resurrecting bespoke tools and associated lost arts. I guess that promoted my thinking in raising awareness. It is a mistake to assume knowledge. I did not want anybody on the basis of this thread to use files, which are admittedly good sources of high carbon steel, for unsuitable purposes. At least we have unequivocally established the dangers.

    Just on vehicle valve stems, and at the risk of making this a "three in one thread," they make very passable centre punches providing they are ground to a point without drawing the temper. Big truck motors are the best source.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #30
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    Word of warning on using vehicle valves. Just make sure they aren't sodium filled. Usually can be picked out as they have thick stems.

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