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  1. #1
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    Default hand forged socket carving chisels

    Hi all I have small forge and I am currently in need of some carving chisels and want to make them myself rather than spend say $300 + on a set.

    I am looking at using and old coil spring for the socket and blades as they are generally 1075 or 1084 hi carbon steel. I am basing my design of Chinese violin gauges but with the profiles I need rather that just a shallow curve. I am planing to make the handles pear shaped and palm sized as I prefer to shave and push rather than drive with a hammer.

    has anyone ever gone down this path when making chisels or am I the only one crazy enough to try?

    any thoughts would be appreciated. Bellow is an image of the design I am basing mine off
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...--oO7nfvjq4v6Q

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  3. #2
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    Not new at all. First Nations natives have been forging carving tools from files since the mid-1700's or earlier.
    The global standard for sweeps (the shapes and sizes) is the London Pattern Book (aka the Sheffield List).

    I've been carving for a while. I, too, enjoy the peace and quiet of hand work as opposed to a whole day with a mallet.
    Sweeps? You don't need them all. #1, 3, 5, 7, & 9 is enough.
    Size? How big will your carvings be? Small gouges take forever to work big wood. There's justification for a 30oz mallet.
    I'll say that it's really hard to push anything wider than maybe 8mm in hard woods.

    Well worth the experiments. Please show us what you make. I confess that my striking accuracy it really terrible
    when compared with the skills of our local blacksmith.

  4. #3
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    I have been doing small hair pins smaller works the moment which only really require my draw knife, spoke shaves, and Kiradashi however I am now moving towards bigger 3d scupltures which will need propper carving chisels and shaves. So not your traditional relief carving. I have my eye long term on a Yari Ganna/Kanna or Japanese spear plane. As the seem like great for caring long curves.

    I have noticed that other cultures such an the first nations natives and Kenyan carves all make there own tools as well so the Idea in that that new. I regards to traditional London pattern sweeps I would only use one or two I needing more V gouges and skew style gauges I have already modifed a old ward firmer chisel for such skew style tool however I will be remounting it on a longer handle as the 150mm is too short so its going on a 350mm handle I will post pics when its done.

    This said I do like the authority that a heavy gouge and mallet/hammer posses when the need to remove heavy amounts for stock is required.

    Yeah I hear you I am far better with wood that metal but can make a half decent blade. Not compared to a professional blacksmith but not bad for a home job. I will give this a shot and post pics as I do.

  5. #4
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    I bought a number of carving tool blades from Mcjings which are apparently made from vehicle springs. They are ok, just ok - nothing like the Pfeils or Henry Taylor's I usually use - more like my Marples which I don't particularly like.

    I don't know how much this comment helps, obviously I don't know their process or what yours will be.

    Here's theirs

    https://mcjing.com.au/categorybrowse...ategoryid=1190
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arron View Post
    I bought a number of carving tool blades from Mcjings which are apparently made from vehicle springs. They are ok, just ok - nothing like the Pfeils or Henry Taylor's I usually use - more like my Marples which I don't particularly like.

    I don't know how much this comment helps, obviously I don't know their process or what yours will be.

    Here's theirs

    https://mcjing.com.au/categorybrowse...ategoryid=1190
    I have been curious about these as they are really good value and I can make the handle shape I like. did you get the V gouges? or the flat chisels? I am curious as to how sharp an edge they can hold as I do tend to be obsessive when it comes to sharpness.

    I would hardly compare them to any high quality finished product or chisel as I am a believer in you get what you pay for.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate84TS View Post
    I have been curious about these as they are really good value and I can make the handle shape I like. did you get the V gouges? or the flat chisels? I am curious as to how sharp an edge they can hold as I do tend to be obsessive when it comes to sharpness.

    I would hardly compare them to any high quality finished product or chisel as I am a believer in you get what you pay for.
    They are a bit soft and dont hold a particularly good edge.

    I likened them above to the marples tools which were sold in every hardware store a few years ago when there were enough people interested in carving to make it worthwhile - that sort of middle-market tool.

    Good for soft wood but not hardwood and not mallet work

    I bought a range. V's, tiny flats, 'hooks' and fishtails. If you are in the neighbourhood you should drop in and get some of the rarely used shapes/sizes - that you will probably never otherwise own. If you have ever wondered how Asian carvers do those things with multiple carvings one inside the other, that's what the hooks are used for.

    The other blanks and finished carving tools that this vendor sold I did not like at all.

    A question
    With the coil spring steel - do you need to harden and temper it after shaping?
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  8. #7
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    Coil spring and flat leaf spring metals have to be annealed for shaping.
    Harden and temper at the end then the final sharpening and honing.
    Old story here that pre-62 Volkswagen beetle leaf spring was as good as Ford 1-ton truck leaf.
    There's a Youtube of a guy forging a bowl gouge from a BMW coil spring.

    Seems only reasonable to have the tools which do the sort of carving that interests you.
    Pacific Northwest style tools allow me to do more than all the Pfeils that I own.
    25cm to 150cm seems my range, from 4cm to 20cm thick.

  9. #8
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    Default hand forged socket carving chisels

    Quote Originally Posted by Robson Valley View Post
    Coil spring and flat leaf spring metals have to be annealed for shaping.
    Harden and temper at the end then the final sharpening and honing.
    Old story here that pre-62 Volkswagen beetle leaf spring was as good as Ford 1-ton truck leaf.
    There's a Youtube of a guy forging a bowl gouge from a BMW coil spring.

    Seems only reasonable to have the tools which do the sort of carving that interests you.
    Pacific Northwest style tools allow me to do more than all the Pfeils that I own.
    25cm to 150cm seems my range, from 4cm to 20cm thick.
    Nit picking sorry.
    A 62 Volkswagen Beetle has a torrisio bar suspension system,not leave springs.
    The bar is around 25 mm thick.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #9
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    That's OK by me. What's actually in any Volkswagen for suspension is really of no interest.
    Since gouges can be made from BMW coil springs, I see no reason why adze blades could not be forged from torsion bar stock, either.

    Despite the high cost and our lousy exchange rate (0.75USD), I'll still pay for the tooling and expertise at Kestrel Tool for my adze blades.
    I make my crooked knifes from several brands of farrier's hoof knives with complete success.

  11. #10
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    I think that leaf springs might be an easier base with which to start than coil springs, but here a lot would depend on exactly what you are trying to make. There is a lot of straightening involved with a coil spring compared to flattening a leaf spring. If you were making a heavy bowl gouge then a round base might be less work, but for a carving gouge I would be tempted to start with a leaf spring.

    You can make the steel hard during the heat treatment stage (in fact you have to do this) and then temper down to reduce hardness and increase durability. There is always a balance, but at least you can chose.

    This thread talks a little about the potential for tools made from leaf springs:

    Set of eleven chisels.

    Before anybody comments too severely on the box, it was made by one of my sons as his school project (I think it is a standard project in schools) and I used it for it's sentimental and nostalgic significance.

    One comment I would make about leaf springs is that they are frequently quite degraded by time, wear and rust. Mostly it is only a cosmetic issue as the bevel will automatically reveal fresh steel and that only leaves the back or the inside of an outcanel (is that the right word? Probably misspellt at the very least) tool to be flattened or brought to a smooth finish: A sharp edge being the perfect meeting of two regular surfaces.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #11
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    In this day and time, I'd be inclined to buy metal with predictable working characteristics.
    Haida Gwaii and the north coast are remote. A century ago would have been no better. No metal stock sources.

    But old leaf springs would have been a ready source of adze blades, both then and now.
    Any old & rusty file would have been stock for crooked knives as it has been in Canada since 1700 or earlier.

  13. #12
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    I did one of those one-day 'learn to forge steel' courses by the Traditional Tool Group. I made an edge tool which had a skewed blade on one end, twists in the middle and a sharp point on the other - out of an old file. Hardened and tempered.

    It seems to hold a very nice edge, though I haven't usd it enough to really know how it compares to a Pfeil.

    How would the steel in a file compare to leaf springs?
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  14. #13
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    Most native communities in the eastern 1/3(?), maybe 1/2(?) of North America can be called the "birch-building peoples."
    They made and used a 1-handed draw knife called the Mocotaugan crooked knife. It isn't a 'wood-carving' tool in that sense.
    Fresh birch is really soft and easily worked wood. The knife was used to make or repair pack frames, snowshow frames,
    birch bark canoes and paddles.

    By 1760, the natives had a choice: buy files from the Hudson's Bay Company fur trading stores and forge Mocotaugan blades
    Or HBC was selling Mocotaugan knife blades by the barrel, made in Sheffield, UK. I actually have such a blade but modern.
    I have seen no more than 50 Mocotaugan knives. Most appear to have been forged from files,
    judging by the design of the tang and the way that t is set into the handle.

    Early knives and adzes? Whatever steel was at hand was better than both jade and copper.
    The Japan Current has been delivering Asian garbage for many centuries to the BC coast (Fukushima, included).
    European explorers noted that even the Haida already seemed familiar with iron-tipped tools.

    Which is better? Need to find a blacksmith/carver willing to do the experiments!
    I'll say that my Kestrel adze blades are harder than all my crooked knives except for the blades made by Hall(Canada) and Ukal/Supervet (France.)
    My Pfeil gouges are ever so slightly softer than those. In hand work, I can feel the edge 'going away' in about 30 minutes. Time for a short honing tune-up.

  15. #14
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    There is considerable satisfaction in making your own tools, but if you decide to buy there are a few options that don't cost as much as $300+

    https://www.japanwoodworker.com/cate.../carving-tools

    Carving Tools

    Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  16. #15
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    I could see individual Japanese gouges for $160.00? Not for me.
    I know that you can buy pairs of Hall farrier's knives in Australia.
    They make excellent wood carving tools and you always get a scorp in the bargain. Mora #171 and #188 are softer but still OK
    Hall knives are no bargain as you get what you pay for.
    Instead, call on your local farrier and buy used knives = they still have a lifetime of carving steel in them.

    I know that there are Kestrel elbow adze blades in use in Australia. You might be better off to buy the best.

    Kestrel Tool

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