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Thread: soil deficiency

  1. #1
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    Default soil deficiency

    We had a few days rain a while back which seemed to have brought out a soil deficiency, I started noticing some leaf discolouration namely green veins with yellow in the between the veins
    deficiency.jpgsoil deficiency.jpg
    first is in a strawberry, second is in a weed that grows here, I pulled this one out of a bit of a drain, I can see a few more leaves on various plants that look similliar, so a bit of googling looking for what particular def. this might be, symptons of a soil deficiency can show up in the leaves of the plant with a varied range of colourations and disformity depending on what it is, I find sometimes it's a little hard to distinguish the exact problem based on the photo's on a given website, so finally I decide it's a manganese deficiency which is corrected with an application of manganese sulphour which I did about a week ago and I think I can see some improvement in the new leaves, the garden shop said to wait at least 2 weeks to judge the results.

    Does anybody else notice any sort of deficiency after a good lot of rain?





    Pete



    Pete

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  3. #2
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    The first thing I would do is to find the pH of my soil before deciding what may or may not work for the plants in that soil.

    I myself, have a few pH meters, with some of them dedicated to fine tuning adjustment of darkroom chemicals, others for gardening.

    This link will give you some answers as to which direction you may wish to go to.

    http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s3171693.htm

    To answer your question, in my own situation with really sandy soils that revert to pure unwashed sand, approximately 15cm under the original topsoil, bulk rain doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

    Mick.

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    Epsom Salts may help with the sulphate deficiency (search). Not just good for baths, it's also anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal. Pretty sure my deodorant stick is ES, and no tinea in sight when I'm having regular baths after tough work (yep, I do do some from time to time ).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Default soil deficiency

    Brett, Epsom salts are magnesium sulphate, I think Pete is has diagnosed a manganese problem. Although I would have guessed that was a magnesium defficiency... which I treat with ES too. I just put a teaspoon of Epsom salts in a 750ml spray bottle and give things a spray once a month in summer, if it's been raining.

    This is a good Gardening Australia snippet where I got the treatment recipe, that talks about this problem. http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s4124276.htm

    Matt
    ...I'll just make the other bits smaller.

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    I myself, have a few pH meters, with some of them dedicated to fine tuning adjustment of darkroom chemicals, others for gardening.
    If I may ask as to which gardening pH meter would you recommend in an average price range.
    So many to choose from, always great to find out first hand which are the better ones.


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    I have the Manutec purple liquid and white powder for ph testing, I would say it seems to be a well adopted method over a meter.

    I'm reasonably sure it's a manganese def. based on the leaf colourations I am seeing, I think the soils here are naturally deficient, I see the same leaf pattern on plants that are growing in soil that I haven't done anything to apart from mulching.
    Manganese and Iron both start to be less available from >6.5, Boron, Copper and Zinc become less available from >7.0.

    I have only been ph testing from last year, I originally thought I might have a nitrogen issue with all the woody mulch and sawdust I use but I don't think I have a nitrogen issue, nitrogen is available over a rather wide ph range, as well as testing the soil I have been testing my (gone cold) hot composted grass clippings which indicate quite high, 9 or more, very purple, it comes down if I let it age for 3+ months to around the 7, I have in the past used the gone cold clippings straight away with no ill effect that I observed, I have also in the past added dolomite and wood ash (both sparingly and not for a couple of yrs now) which are alkaline so what I think I might have been doing is just slightly moving my soil to more alkaline than maybe whatever it was before (2+ yrs ago) and thus I am starting to see this def. show up.

    Has anybody else tested their compost plies, cold and/or gone cold hot compost? In the video that Mick posted Jerry says that adding compost/manures will move the ph to more acid which seems to be contra to what I am measuring and seeing, I wonder if an email to Manutec might be an idea for a bit more info re measuring compost? Email sent, I wait for a reply!
    ph testing.jpgsoil ph.jpg
    The first (on the right) is gone cold hot composted grass clippings, 9 or more, on the left is (I'm not sure) but I think it's some aged stuff which looks more like the 6 to 7 range as does the second, definately no yellow tones which are in the 5 to 6 range.
    Based on the soil ph which to me indicates a good range but if I still am having a leaf issue it leads me to think I have the deficiency.

    The more that I read the more I think there's a lot in soil chemistry, I just googled manganese leaching in soils, and read this...
    At soil pH above 6, manganese forms bonds with organic matter, oxides and silicates whereby its solubility decreases. Manganese availability and solubility is thus generally low at high pH and high organic matter content, so the simple addition of organic matter would seem to have a hand in affecting trace mineral availability, and I have added quite a bit over the time I've been here, lucky are those with good soils! or know what they are doing I don't

    I have a hard as rock clay soil when dry and slippery and soft when wet, they tell us add organic matter to improve pretty much any soil type which I won't disagree with but even this can be overdone, inadvertantly this year I have decided to not add as much organic matter to one bed and just add fertilizer and see what happens, this thinking also led to the use of the screen to screen out the larger organic matter and to improve my cold composting system, the story continues.




    Pete
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolften View Post
    If I may ask as to which gardening pH meter would you recommend in an average price range.
    So many to choose from, always great to find out first hand which are the better ones.
    I have a few pH meters, some not working anymore, mostly they are the cheaper end ones but a couple were full on serious scientific units I initially picked up ex CSIRO from auctions many moons ago.

    About 20 years ago I heard of Hanna instruments and picked up one of their little pocket pH meters, I've been using them ever since. They aren't as cheap anymore, but they are still relatively cheap and these days they also have automatic temperature compensation inbuilt. Their later ones were also fully waterproof, not sure if they were supposed to float, but mine didn't.

    There are quite a few designated garden pH meters, and I have seen two of them. Very modestly priced, with seemingly accurate measurements if used correctly. Using a pH meter in the field (so to speak) correctly, is often a problem. I prefer my Hanna unit, or an equivalent like product. Hanna also have, or had, a unit very popular in the USA market and often referred to as a "Beer Stick pH meter. They were/are very cheap units, around the $30USD from memory and I have seen one in Germany, it appears they also do the job.

    Hanna Australia are here: http://www.hannainst.com.au/subcategory/3H+Testers

    I have the earlier version of the pHep 4 unit on that Hanna page.

    This unit would be similar to what I have and includes some buffer solutions which you do require to get your meter working correctly. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/3111...pid=107&chn=ps

    One has to be careful using a pH meter to measure soil pH, I found it easy to get incorrect results until I refined my technique a bit. This how I have done it and still do it, not sure if it’s scientifically correct but it seems to work and the one test I did with a sample of soil that I also sent a sample off to a lab, returned nearly identical results. If you didn’t include the extra decimal places from the lab, they were identical.

    Mix two parts water with one part soil and let it mix for about ten minutes with some vigorous shaking every minute or so.

    The pH of normal tap water you add will more than likely affect the reading.

    Plain distilled water with a pH of 7.0 is ideal, I use stuff from Bunnings, dirt cheap. If the water’s pH is higher, the soil measurement will be higher than the true value. The reverse is true if the pH of the water you add is lower than 7.0.

    Immerse the electrode into this solution per the meter’s instructions to measure the soil’s pH.

    I usually hold the electrode under a running tap to clean all the stuff off, before putting it away immersed in a buffer solution.

    My preference would be to firstly ascertain what type and model of meter you would like then scour auction sites for the best way to acquire any meter. Purchasing these products from technical supply places mean you will more than likely need to flog your car to pay for them. I have also seen a small dual stick moisture pH meter for sale in a garden shop in downtown Melbourne a while ago for a very modest price, they had it in a nothing over $10 basket, or something like that; kicked myself for not picking it up.

    Mick.

  9. #8
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    Default an update

    Just an update on the strawberry leaves that I thought looked a bit manganese deficient, it has been a while since I added the Mn and I definitely think they improved.
    strawberry leaves.jpg




    Pete

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